Talk:List of answer songs

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents 1 Street Fighting Man 2 Formatting 3 Why even bother? 4 Songs that refer to themselves 5 "Songs which do not refer to themselves" 6 Musical quotes/samples 7 Silly list of songs 8 Why was this list moved? 9 "Let's Twist Again" 10 Order 11 Sweet Home Alabama 12 Songs with strong references 13 "Referential songs" not equal to "answer songs" 14 Actual answers songs (list) 15 What about sequels? 16 Answer songs Vs Songs that just refer to others 17 Remove Eminem songs

[edit] Street Fighting Man

This article says that Revolution by the Beatles was an answer to Street Fighting Man, but the page on Street Fighting Man says that it was an answer to Revolution.

[edit] Formatting

Song titles are put in quotation marks. Not italicized. The songs also need to be alphabetized.

[edit] Why even bother?

This list could be rediculously large. Especially with respect to Rap/Hip-hop in which 25% to 50% of rap could reference other songs.

[edit] Songs that refer to themselves

Do songs that refer to themselves belong on a list of songs that refer to other songs? --Paul A 09:15 Mar 7, 2003 (UTC)

Clearly by the article title self referential songs do not belong on this list. "Yellow" should go on a different list (along with "The Memphis Blues" and "Ballin' The Jack"). I moved Yellow here to talk, until/unless anyone wants to start a self referential list. -- Infrogmation 20:07 Mar 16, 2003 (UTC)

And add "Hook" by Blues Traveler and "Anthem" by Phantom Planet Tuf-Kat

• "Yellow" by Coldplay is self-referential:

"Look at the stars, Look how they shine for you, And everything you do, Yeah, they were all yellow. I came along, I wrote a song for you, And all the things you do, And it was called 'Yellow.'"

Done. List of self referential songs - To get the ball rolling, I added the songs that have been mentioned, and suddenly a whole bunch of other songs came to mind. Can someone fill in info for "Anthem"? DropDeadGorgias 20:11, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)

[edit] "Songs which do not refer to themselves"

I'd like to write a song entitled "songs which do not refer to themselves".

In fact I'll do it (sings):

Songs which do not refer to themselves

 This is a song,
 a song, not a long song,
 about songs that don't refer to themselves.
 Now that it exists, 
 Please put it in your lists.

The Anome 09:30 Mar 7, 2003 (UTC)

But . . . it refers to itself, so it can't go on that list. Ortolan88

[edit] Musical quotes/samples

Musical quotes/samples a whole nother kettle of fish:

• "Give Me a Pigfoot and a Bottle of Beer" by Bessie Smith starts out with a musical quote of Morton's "Original Jelly Roll Blues", supposedly comming from a place with a 25 cent admission price, which Bessie considers unreasonably high.

Is this just talking about references in the lyrics? What about references in the music itself? "Ice, Ice, Baby"'s reference to Bowie's "Under Pressure" comes to mind. -- Zoe

Whether this article is meant to refer to lyrical and/or musical allusions, "Ice, Ice, Baby" samples "Under Pressure" -- if we're going to include samples as a "reference", I have about a thousand songs to add. (another reason to oppose "Ice, Ice Baby" specifically: last I heard Vanilla Ice does not admit he sampled the Queen and David Bowie song, so it's a POV that at least one person claims not to share) Tuf-Kat

That Bowie sampled the bassline from the Bowie/Queen song is a POV that the courts upheld in the plagiarism suit, mind you.  :-)

[edit] Silly list of songs

This silly list of songs is not like the other silly lists of songs
This list of songs documents influences, the folk process, "how the web was woven", by giving an indication of the impact of older music on more modern music. If we stick to that and don't strain to include every tenor sax solo with a quote from "Melancholy Baby" in it, we'll have an article worth keeping. Ortolan88

[edit] Why was this list moved?

Why was this list moved to "List of answer songs"? I tend to think of "answer songs" as being something distinct; "Judy's Turn to Cry" is an example but most of the others here seem not to be. I think the previous title was better for the article. -- Infrogmation 06:17 Mar 19, 2003 (UTC)

The title change is a mistake. These are not answer songs. Answer songs are songs that answer other songs. I don't know how common they are these days, but back in the 1950s they were a staple of rhythm and blues, "Work with me Annie" was answered by "Annie had a Baby" and "The Wallflower" (better known as "Roll with me Henry"). Willie Mabon's "I Don't Know" was answered by "Yes I Know". Et cetera. The name should be changed back. Ortolan88 15:34 Mar 19, 2003 (UTC)

So, let's move it back (a year later!), or what title would be better for this article? -- Infrogmation 06:26, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

What was the original title? I've only ever known it as "List of answer songs". — Jeff Q 01:36, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

List of songs which refer to other songs. - Vague | Rant 12:25, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)

Yes move it back, the title doesn't really describe most of the songs Kappa 14:43, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• • I agree. Songs like Ortolan88 mentioned are answer songs, most of the songs on this list are just songs that mention other songs. They're two distinctly different things. Kyouketsusha

[edit] "Let's Twist Again"

How about Chubby Checker's "Let's Twist again" or is that a reference to a dance, not a reference to the other song? Rmhermen 22:54, Oct 15, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Order

Songs were previously listed alphabetically. For some reason this was changed. I do not recognize any pattern in how they are arranged now. Why the change, what is the reason for the current layout? Puzzled, -- Infrogmation 06:26, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Two apparent reasons: one or two contributions from people who didn't notice the alphabetical order, and two songs that were sorted by their first word "The" rather than the first significant word in the title. (Some song lists are using this stricly-alpha order now to reduce complexity when non-English song titles [and their plethora of unique articles] are added.) I've sorted the list again and added section headers and a compact table of contents to make this clearer. — Jeff Q 02:18, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Sweet Home Alabama

Please someone add Lynard Skynard's Sweet Home Alabama's response to Neil Young? Don't know enough about it, just remember hearing that in the song.

It's already in there. Rmhermen 13:16, Jul 29, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Songs with strong references

There is a song with a lyrical reference to the song "Early in the Morning" by the Gap Band. The song that references that was made this millennium; list it in this article if somebody knows it.

There is a song that has the rhythm to "Jump Around" by House of Pain. It was in an episode of "The Simpsons". Also, list it if somebody knows it. --TheSamurai 15:02, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Referential songs" not equal to "answer songs"

As Ortolan88 mentioned above, "answer songs" are a real and specific definition, more precise than "referential songs". I believe the correct solution for the presence of merely referential songs in this list, and the inclusion of the broader definition within this artticle's definition, would be to remove the not-specifically-answer-songs (and the bogus part of the definition) from this article, not to retitle it. I'll fix the definition now, but I request help in trimming non-answer songs. Note the VfD for List of referential songs. Barno 19:08, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• I oppose removal of songs which refer to other songs, this is a very valuable list. Above, there are 5 people who think this should be renamed and no opposers. Actual Answer songs could perhaps be listed in a separate section. Also the Vfd is not about this article. Kappa 19:16, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Correct: the VfD is about the topic that you claim belongs on this page despite the differing title and differing definition. For you and others who feel "songs which refer to other songs" is "a very valuable list", you should be working to improve List of referential songs and moving such songs there, not trying to redefine and rename this list, and not trying to keep songs that don't belong on this list. Did those 5 people from 2003 and 2004 have both lists available to distinguish what belongs where? The only clear reason I see in those comments is that some of the listed songs weren't answer songs but were referential. That is good cause to remove (or move to the other list) those songs, not to screw up the definition for this list until it loses the meaning it had for over a half-century. Barno 23:40, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    • And, duh, this list is the "separate section" for "actual answer songs". What else could belong on this page, when the other list exists? Barno 23:43, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    • This list has always been about "Songs which refer to other songs", it just got moved to the wrong name at some point. Kappa 23:51, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
      • There are two lists, one for each meaning; it was when it had the other name that it had the "wrong" name. Let me try an analogy: Imagine that "List of roadsters" and "List of sports cars" both exist. The word "roadster" has had a consistent definition, "two-seat convertible achieving high performance through low weight", since the 1920s. Now imagine that "List of roadsters" had once been under the name "List of sports cars"; and because nobody but bus riders and SUV drivers has edited the page, it still contains the Volkswagen Cabriolet (a low-performance four-seat convertible) and the Ferrari F500 (a hard-roofed sports car), along with an incorrect definition of "roadster" that equates to "sports car". Is the correct solution to (a) fix the definition and move non-roadsters to a more appropriate list, or (b) to insist that "List of roadsters" must keep an incorrect definition and continue to list non-roadsters? Barno 15:00, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    • The analgoy is: a "list of sports cars" contains sports cars including roadsters. Someone moves it to "List of roadsters". Should all the other sports cars be deleted, or should it be moved back? Kappa 16:38, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
      • Regardless of how the lists were originally created, if there are two lists, each list should contain what it says it contains, and neither list should contain things that are not what it says it contains. "List of referential songs" exists, and "List of roadsters" exists. Put the appropriate contents in each list. Barno 19:14, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

---

• • • • • Moving or waiting? I understand the lists & subjects are de facto spliced in Answers & References. Shouldn't we change the definition in the article (this article) into the Clear Answer-one. And also add a -temporary- note, that de list is will be reduced?. -DePiep 15:43, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Actual answers songs (list)

Here are the songs I think are, or might be, real "answer songs".

• You should really know
• Son of a bitch
• Slim Anus
• Revolution
• Roxanne's Revenge
• Pull Over
• No Pigeons
• Marshall Mathers
• London Boys
• It Wasn't God Who Made Honky-Tonk Angels
• In the Springtime of His Voodoo
• I'm That Type Of Nigga
• (I'm Not Your) Wild Thing
• I'll Save The Last Dance For You
• "(I'll Never Be) Your Maggie May
• If You Want To Sex Me Up
• F.U.R.B. (Fuck U Right Back)
• Exile in Guyville

Exile in Guyville shouldn't be there, it's an album, not a song. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 20:00, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

I would also keep "Stephen, You were Really Something", a direct response to The Smiths' "William, It Was Really Nothing" --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 20:00, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] What about sequels?

Are sequels considered answer songs? I added Chuck Berry's "Bye Bye Johnny" and "Little Marie" which are sequels to "Johnny B. Goode" and "Memphis", respectively. 23skidoo 01:12, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Answer songs Vs Songs that just refer to others

There's now a List of self-referential songs and a List of songs which refer to other songs on Wikipedia - many of the songs in this list should be there. One example I can think of from the top of my head is "Stan" by Eminem; it talks about the Phil Collins song, but isn't an actual answer to it, not like "F.U.R.B." by Frankee which was released only a few months after "Fuck It (I Don't Want You Back)", the song it is answering. Anyone think this list here should be pruned? Satan's Rubber Duck 18:43, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

YES... "And the band played Waltzing Matilda" an answer song to a folk tune decades old?! I don't think so. pfctdayelise (translate?) 21:03, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I decided to take matters into my own hands and take out all of the songs that overlapped with List of songs which refer to other songs and weren't really "answer songs". Hopefully this doesn't offend anyone. Jablair51 21:51, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Remove Eminem songs

I'm going to remove some songs, particularly the Eminem songs "The real slim shady" and "stan" as they are not answer songs. Just because a song mentions something about another song or uses some of its lyrics does not make it an answer song. If that were true, every song that uses "diamond in the back" would be an answer song.