Talk:List of countries by highest point

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I really dont think China has any claims whatsoever over Mt.Everest—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.144.19.196 (talk • contribs) 13:23, 24 September 2005 .

While you're entitled to that POV, please see the discussion in Tibet (and on that article's Talk page) before making related edits to this article. Current consensus is that Tibet is "controlled" by China and does not exist as an autonomous entity; therefore, it can't claim Everest. China, as controller of the region called "Tibet", can.--chris.lawson 17:46, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Is there a page for countries by lowest point? Andjam 00:40, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

• Not quite, but see our list of places on land with elevations below sea level. Warofdreams talk 10:20, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Major Errors in CIA list 2 Monte Bianco? 3 Precision Elevations 4 Serbia and Montenegro 5 Mount Hermon 6 K2 7 HP of Australia

[edit] Major Errors in CIA list

The CIA misinformation list on which this list is based should be buried so deep that nobody would even think about bothering to retrieve it. Ditto this list. I hate improperly researched misinformation as much as I hate spam. Viewfinder 01:48, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Uh, what? Can you specifically point out any demonstrably false entries on this list?--chris.lawson 02:36, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes - see the link I have provided. I have corrected the errors that I am sure about but there may be many more. Viewfinder 02:51, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

The link you have provided does not, in itself, meet Wikipedia standards of verifiability nor does it meet the standard of a reliable source. Please cite specific reliable and verifiable sources here on Talk for each of the data points you wish to change. I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm just saying that we have a high standard of accountability and I, for one, intend to see that followed.

Also, please do not re-insert your rant about the CIA World Factbook into the lead paragraph. It is not encyclopedic and does not belong in the article.--chris.lawson 03:03, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

If you had actually bothered to read the link that I supplied you would see that the documentary evidence pointed to in that link does meet the required standards. Most of the evidence can also be found by clicking on the names of the individual summits and I an not going to copy it all out again here. I can also substantiate the majority of my changes using SRTM data from NASA which has been proved to be reliable.

You say you have a high standard of accountability but that's rich when you permit the publication of elevations like 5,030m for Mount Carstenz which has long since been discredited by the respected Seven Summits movement. Most of the elevations I have given appear on loads of other Wikipedia pages where they have not been challenged.

If you wish to dispute any individual case then I will discuss it in more detail. But meanwhile if there are any more reversals from you Lawson I will start formal dispute proceeding without delay.

It's here in the CIA document..... must be the truth (to paraphrase Tom Robinson..) Viewfinder 09:50, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

One more question for you Lawson. Do you intend to tear down this Wikipedia document on the grounds that some of the elevations given do not meet the verifiability standards? And the Seven Summits document which gives a 4,884m elevation for Mount Carstenz, contrary to the CIA? And every other document that is not regurgitated CIA c***?Viewfinder 10:16, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I intend to tear down every single Wikipedia article brought to my attention that lacks verifiable and reliable sources for its claims. As I'm only one person, this is obviously a huge task. Please feel free to help me by providing citations and editing any articles you can find to reflect the proper elevation data. Please do not, however, cite your own personal Web site as a "reliable source." Cite the primary sources used on your site instead.--chris.lawson 16:52, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

OK Chris. Yes you can count on my help and I'll take more trouble to document the primary sources. It's just that when I saw all those archaic elevations (heaven knows why the CIA can't get round to updating them) it got to me. I'm sure you know the feeling. I never meant to claim my that website is in itself a reliable source, the claims are about the sources pointed to in that site. I hope nobody will dispute that SRTM data is accurate, reliable and verifiable. For much of the world there is no other reliable topographic source data. I have been working with it right from its arrival, I know it really well. The prominence pages have been or are being linked to the appropriate elevation sources. Viewfinder 22:28, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Summary of changes:

• HP Bhutan, no Bhutanese survey, see various links to Japanese Alpine Club documentation here re Chinese survey.
• HP Mexico (survey by professional) see summit link in main article
• HP Iran see summit link in main article, SRTM disproves 5671m
• HP Russia see Seven Summits
• HP Turkey see summit link in main article, SRTM disproves 5165m
• HP Indonesia see Seven Summits
• HP Ethiopia professional survey, see summit link
• HP Venezuela official, see here
• HP Yemen SRTM disproves higher elevation
• HP's Chad, Liberia, Somalia SRTM disproves lower elevations
• HP Dominican Republic professional and amateur surveys consistent with SRTM, see summit link
• HP Brazil official, see here
• HP Saudi Arabia SRTM disproves higher elevation
• HP Guyana Various elevations given, no accurate survey
• HP Solomon Islands SRTM, more accurate IFSAR data and official mapping disprove higher elevation and expose incorrect location
• HP Gabon SRTM exposes totally crazy location and elevation
• HP Bangladesh SRTM also exposes totally crazy location and elevation.
• HP Kazakhstan: see summit link
• HP Burundi SRTM and Russian 500k mapping both show higher summit than Mont Heha
• HP Botswana SRTM shows that Tsodilo is no more than 1400m, there are several competing high points, all over 1470m, in the Gaborone area
• HP Republic of Congo, SRTM shows that Mont Nabeba, 1,020 m at 1°50′39″N, 13°59′27″E, is higher than Mont Berongou.

---

CIA list also has Victoria Peak as the highest peak of Belize, while numerous sources (incl. Belizean govt. (http://www.belize.gov.bz/belize/welcome.shtml) and Wikipedia in Geography_of_Belize have Doyle's Delight as the highest peak - at 1124m (Victoria is quoted to have 1120 m). I have thus altered the list accordingly. naapi 09 Sep 2006

[edit] Monte Bianco?

According to the article Mont Blanc, the Italian-French border officially goes over the summit, with only some French maps indicating otherwise. Does this mean that both France and Italy should be credited equally with Mont Blanc / Monte Bianco on this list? --Stemonitis 16:05, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

--- The summit of Mont Blanc is wholly in France and I am not aware of any dispute about this. Perhaps the other article should be changed. Viewfinder 22:02, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Reading the article Mont Blanc (in any of the few languages I understand) indicates that there is indeed a dispute between France and Italy. Since listing Italy's highest peak as either Mont Blanc or Mont Blanc de Courmayeur would be adopting a particular point of view, I have chosen to include both. --Stemonitis 12:43, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Precision Elevations

I have restored the elevation of Everest to 8,848m, and unless I am persuaded otherwise, I will restore the elevation in the Mount Everest article too. There have been several recent surveys of Everest and K2 claiming precision to less than a meter, some giving higher figures than the traditional 8,848m and 8,611m, others giving lower figures, and the spread of these exceeds their claimed accuracy. They should therefore be regarded as publicity seeking and should be ignored. In reality, the Himalayan geoid has not been determined with sufficient accuracy to allow such precision. A further point with regard to the recent Chinese survey: according to the Mount Everest page, the geologic height was measured, not the height including perennial snow and ice cover. The logical extenstion of this would demand that the elevation of Mont Blanc (which varies seasonally) be lowered by 10-20m, Khan Tangiri Shyngy to 6,995m and the South Pole to around or below sea level. Until several independent measurements show a consistent error margin, the elevations of Mount Everest and K2 should stand at 8,848m and 8,611m, and confusing alternatives should be rejected.

[edit] Serbia and Montenegro

The two nations are still listed together. Does anyone have highest points for the two separately? Warofdreams talk 01:34, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Djeravica (2656 m) is in Kosovo which is still nominally part of Serbia and must continue to be regarded as such for the purposes of this page. I have added the official Montenegro HP and height, but Russian 50k mapping states that it is 2520.9 m compared with 2521.8 m for Maja e Roshit, on the Montenegro-Albania border, and in any case the difference is likely to be within the survey error margin. So the question seems to me to remain open. Btw does anyone know if the re-ranking can be automated, or is it necessary to manually increment the subsequent ranks individually? Viewfinder 05:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for this. Although I don't know of one, a pretty simple program could be written to increment the ranks - I wonder if anyone has created a bot which would do it? Warofdreams talk 18:24, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mount Hermon

I have reverted the edits by Amoruso which I regard as POV, see the map at Golan Heights. Amoruso and I could only agree to disagree. But comments from regular, neutral contributors about how this issue should be handled would be appreciated. Some sort of footnote may be appropriate. Viewfinder 16:12, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree, I changed it though to what I see is more factual. Mount Hermon is IN israel. Some maps show the golan to be inside israel proper - see the national geographic ones. Amoruso 03:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The vast majority of maps show the Golan Heights to be OUTSIDE Israel. Viewfinder 04:13, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so. There are all sorts of maps. National Geographic seems pretty unbiased to me. And the way people decide to draw maps and historical armistice lines doesn't seem the appropriate criteria. There is one map that means more and that's the actual physical presence - I think maps are only help tools. Amoruso 04:15, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] K2

There is no official international view on the matter of whether the south and west sides of K2 belong to Pakistan or India. International mapping and the international community are neutral on the subject. Maps shows no formal India-Pakistan border, only a line of control. K2 is on the Pakistani side of this line, and is therefore considered to be in Pakistan for the purposes of this article.

[edit] HP of Australia

Contrary to what we are stating in this article, Australia states that the Southern Ocean islands, and hence Mawson Peak, are as much included within Australia as Tasmania is, and the Canary Islands and Pico de Teide are within Spain. I therefore propose to change Australia's HP. Any cooments or objections? Viewfinder 08:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Support: for great consistency! Comment: it's a little odd to have entries which are not generally considered to be in the country proper. Suggestion: put in an unranked entry for "Australia (mainland)" and ditto for "Spain (mainland)". –EdC 10:39, 8 January 2007 (UTC)