Talk:List of grunge music albums

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Some of the artists on this list would probably be considered alternative rather than grunge. Maybe we should rename this article to List of alternative music albums? -- LGagnon

Perhaps... FTR, I am planning on changing the format of this article soon, by cutting out the amateur lists because some of them are really worthlessly done, there are way too many, and the links break way too much. I've already made the shift at list of hip hop albums, and I will be doing the same at list of rock and roll albums soon. Tuf-Kat 04:39, Apr 22, 2004 (UTC)

Except that I can only find one professional list that specifically describes "alternative" albums, and none for grunge specifically. Spin's 100 Greatest Alternative Albums... Tuf-Kat 05:05, Apr 22, 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Grunge? 2 Mudhoney? 3 Accuracy dispute 4 Amazon 5 Marilyn Manson? 6 Where's Seven Mary Three and Toadies 7 Alice in Chains and Soundgarden? 8 Riot Act

[edit] Grunge?

This list is in need of some heavy trimming. There's no way that many of these albums can be considered grunge unless grunge means "somewhat angsty 80s and 90s guitar music". I think anything by the following bands should unquestionably be deleted from this list:

Violent Femmes, Pixies, Stone Roses, Green Day, Nine Inch Nails, The Offspring, Filter, No Doubt, PJ Harvey, Beck, Cake, Radiohead, Jesus & Mary Chain, Deftones, V.A.S.T., Sonic Youth, Rage Against the Machine, R.E.M., Jane's Addiction, Placebo

I'm also very wary of imcluding Alanis Morissette and The Smashing Pumpkins, but at least they're in the general neighborhood of grunge.--Words to sell 15:30, Dec 5, 2004 (UTC)

I'd be glad to see most of these go. Of the ones, you listed, here are the ones I'd consider to have any claim on being on the list:

• Violent Femmes, especially their first album, certainly very influential on the lyrical themes of grunge. The line from them to Mudhoney in this respect seems pretty clear.
• Pixies: probably the strongest claim of anyone on this list, not so much for their precise sound as because they seem to have been a pretty direct influence on both the Melvins and Nirvana.
• The Offspring: just on their sound, especially on their first album.
• PJ Harvey: (1) Her sound on some of her recordings, (2) she has actually recorded with Mark Lanegan (ex-Screaming Trees).
• Jane's Addiction: Again, the sound. They were certainly, at the very least, very respected by many musicians in the Seattle grunge scene.

I don't really know V.A.S.T. or Placebo, so I can't comment. The rest I'd be glad to see go from this list, especially R.E.M. They have strong connections to the Seattle music scene, but emphatically to the pop side rather than the grunge side. And as for Nine Inch Nails, if they are grunge, who isn't? -- Jmabel | Talk 19:45, Dec 5, 2004 (UTC)

This list is elementary at best and historically unfounded. The Violent Femmes, the Pixies, the Offspring, PJ Harvey and Jane's Addiction are (with emphasis) NOT grunge bands, nor are they substantively related to the scene. Artists like the Violent Femmes and the Pixies may certainly have been influential, but only to the extent that the other big name artists in the college rock world of the late 80's leveraged a degree of influence on the grunge aesthetic. Would anyone legitimately venture to claim that the Moving Targets, Daniel Johnston, Naked Raygun, Husker Du, Half Japanese, Big Black, or the Leaving Trains were grunge artists?(the answer is no, just in case you were confused).

As far as REM is concerned, I view this as a half-hearted and misguided attempt to link the grunge movement to the 80's college scene. This isn't necessary. Early grunge had its own niche, much like early shoegaze, or early noise. If one wanted to look to antecedents to the grunge movement, it would be appropriate to look to the L.A. hardcore scene and SST.24.124.14.65 19:14, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I would also like to mention that Bush is not a grunge band. If you removed a good lot of those artists, then the list would be drastically smaller. Mr. C.C. 06:00, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mudhoney?

Would Mudhoney's 2002 and 2006 albums still considered grunge?

No. Perhaps some genre clarification would benefit this list. As it is generally regarded, Grunge in its purest sense is applied to a specific variety of late 80's early 90's college rock. The barriers of the genre were pushed back by increasing commercial popularity c.91. It became a full on movement characterized by a particular aesthetic approach to music, but to characterize certain endeavors as grunge beyond the temporal barriers of the scene is a mischaracterization. This includes retroactive characterization. Wipers, for instance, while massively influential and a part of the Sub Pop lineup in the mid-80's (in fact, if I'm not mistaken, they, along with Wichita, Kansas's the Embarrassment were among the first bands associated with Sub Pop), they were nonetheless not a part of the movement. Be careful... music can be "grungy" without being Grunge.

Specifically, with respect to Mudhoney, they are, at best, these days, a corporate alt. radio rock band... much like the Foo Fighters or Queens of the Stone Age. This is, of course, highly POV, but the analysis is nonetheless worthwhile. If we were to characterize everything that sounds-like-Grunge as Grunge, the list would be massive, historically mischaracterized, and a phenomenal misrepresentation of the scene. No, stick to the genre as it is historically understood... expand the list to include groups that are less obvious contributers to the scene (I mean for God's sake, this thing is barely elementary...). 24.124.14.65 18:53, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

If Courtney Love's Album America's Sweetheart and Pearl Jams Avocado album are on the list then why can't Since We've Become Translucent and Under A Billion Suns be on the list? 24.11.109.43 03:03, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Accuracy dispute

This problem has been going on for a while without being solved. I'm putting the accuracy dispute tag on this article until we solve this. -- LGagnon 16:28, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

Everything on this list is defined as grunge or post-grunge by allmusic. The article says that the designation is controversial in many of these cases. What changes would you like to make? Tuf-Kat 18:38, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

The easiest way to make this articlemore accurate likely would be to only post albums from the bands listed as gruge and post-grunge. That, however, would require the both the grunge and post-grunge band listing to be checked and made sure to be completely, or very near so, accurate.La Pizza11 20:33, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I reverted. This page clearly lays out how the list is formed, which relies on the authority of an outside source. If you'd like to change the list format, propose something else (I don't like the current list either, so please do), but your removals made the lead false and substituted your unsourced opinions for the verifiable allmusic opinions, which is clearly a step downward per WP:CITE. Tuf-Kat 07:30, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

The big problem with trusting AMG for categorization is that they through bands into genres haphazardly. If something sounds even slightly like a genre, they put it in there. Don't get me wrong, AMG is useful in some cases, and I've used them as a reference in other articles (admittedly, moreso for the sake of having a convinient reference that I don't have to search for than for any form of trust), but when it comes to genre designations they're about as talented as an ameteur. What would solve this problem is if we could find an AMG substitute that could be used to contrast their info against. -- LGagnon 00:50, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Problem #1 is the practice of using "amateur lists" as an acceptable citation here, resulting in some highly questionable inclusions. (And using AMG's categorization should be acceptable only if mentioned in their narrative discussion. Their "styles" groupings are not at all trustworthy.) Furthermore, time period and location are not sufficient to cause an album to be "grunge". Neither Seattle nor the '90s are synonymous with grunge. Problem #2, this list is (inconsistently) using CD release dates, not actual album release dates. This makes a difference for the 80s recordings, which were generally vinyl only until after '88-'89 and often ended up on CD as compilations. Putting Soundgarden's Screaming Life as a 1990 release obscures that the vinyl release was 3 years earlier. The U-Men are listed solely with their 2000 retrospective, while they were arguably as important as Green River and the Melvins in creating grunge (Step on a Bug (1988) really should be listed). And Rehab Doll/Dry as a Bone is not an album. It is the album Rehab Doll on a CD with most of Green River's other SubPop recordings (and it was also released in 1988, not 1987 as shown). Problem #3, the citation method leaves out a lot of relatively obscure but important albums. Immediately coming to mind in addition to the U-Men are the Deep Six compilation, Soundgarden's Ultramega OK (1988), Tad's God's Balls (1989) and anything from Skin Yard.

Er, okay so I'm having some regret about being the-newbie-jerk-who-shows-up-and-immediately-and-rudely-insults-what-others-have-put-lots-of-effort-into. I really do think the methodology is problematic, however, so I'll leave what might actually be considered helpful suggestions. Sorry for any jerkiness. -Bert 171.159.64.10 04:08, 15 March 2006 (UTC) (Note to self - be civil.)

Hi. I think you are right on all counts. Please, participate in editing. And, please, take an account, because people will generally treat your edits more gently if you have one. - Jmabel | Talk 04:18, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm asking someone to remove the reference to the Presidents of the United States in the article. They were about as relevant to the scene as Collective Soul or Bush (that is, not at all). This is frustrating, a list like this should be thoughtful and the result of EXTENSIVE research. As it appears now, it reads like a playlist from a crummy mid-90's corporate alternative rock station. I'd be happy to contribute a much more comprehensive and accurate list, if someone would like to suggest some parameters...129.237.45.175 21:39, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Amazon

Erm.. is there a reason for all those amazon links? Half of them are broken anyway... nick 22:28, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I say no, they should be gotten rid of. They are distinctly against policy. - Jmabel | Talk 06:03, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

• Poof* Amazon links gone.La Pizza11 23:30, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marilyn Manson?

I noticed there's a Marilyn Manson album on here. Last time I checked, he's Industrail/Glam Metal. He should be removed.

• Agreed. - Jmabel | Talk 22:31, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I got rid of it. 24.11.109.43 03:03, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Where's Seven Mary Three and Toadies

Seven Mary Three and Toadies are Grunge bands. They should be on here.

• Seven Mary Three and Toadies are, to my thinking at least, minor. I'd be interested in other views. - Jmabel | Talk 22:31, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alice in Chains and Soundgarden?

I know they are often considered a Grunge band, but every Heavy Metal site has them listed. A little genre specification, please.

• Soundgarden: utterly grunge in style, in what scene they were part of; to my ear they sound somewhere between Mudhoney and Pearl Jam, both of whom are unanimously considered grunge. Alice in Chains: Certainly on the line between grunge and metal. My own view would be to classify them in both. I presume the metal factor goes without saying, but the vocals and the subject matter were very grunge and, again, they were part of the grunge "scene". - Jmabel | Talk 22:31, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Riot Act

riot act is not listed