Talk:List of states by date of self-determination

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[edit] Tricky Dates

• Turkey
  • 1400s invasion of Timur Lenk.
  • 1923 Republic declared by Turkish army of general Kemal Atatürk.
• China
  • 1368 The Mongolian Yüan dynasty is regarded a Chinese dynasty. Reason for starting China on this date is that the Mongolian Empire kept on ruling in Mongolia.
  • 17th century. Manchus conquer China, but the Manchu Qing dynasty was regarded as a Chinese dynasty.
  • The British conquered Beijing in the 19th century and international troops conquered Beijing in 1900.
  • The People's republic of China was declared in 1949. May that this republic should be mentioned in 1949 instead of Taiwan (republic of China).
• Iran
  • The Islamic revolution of 1979.
• Sweden
  • 1590s Swedish rebellion against the king, who became roman-catholic when he ruled both in Sweden and Poland.
• Spain
  • New Spain started in the 1490s, when Aragon and Castile were still seperate kingdoms.
  • Charles V became king of Castile in 1555. He already was king of Aragon.
  • 1700s Castile was in favour of a Bourbon king, while Aragon supported an Austrian Habsburger.
  • 1808 Spain was conquered by France, but king Joseph Bonaparte was not recognized in large parts of the country (Latin America for instance).
• Portugal
  • 1640 Portugal had seperate administration before 1640.
  • 19th century. European Portugal was conquered by French troops, but colonies were still Portugeese. The royal house fled to Brazil.
• Great Britain
  • 17th century. Scotland and England were united in the early 17th century. Scotland became independent again after the beheading of Charles I and was conquered by Cromwell. The parliaments of Scotland and England were in charge from 1688 onwards, allthough they had the same king.
  • 1707 Scotland and England become Great Britain.
  • 19th century. Great britain and Ireland were united. The British Empire was created and dissolved.
• Thailand
  • 1940s Thailand was a Japanese puppet. Was it occupied by either the Japanese or the allies?
• United States
  • 18th century. Lost the capital during British military expeditions. Maybe independence should start when Britain acknowledged it.
  • 1812 Washington was conquered by the British.
• Switzerland
  • 1798 The French occupied it, but immediately accepted continuation of the republic.
  • 1799 Switzerland was a battleground of the French and Austrian armies. Perhaps the entire country was occupied by these armies.
  • 1813 Helvetian Republic dissolved, which was a French puppet.
• Chile
  • 1810s Royal troops dominated the country. The Argentinians helped with the true independence.
• Colombia
  • 1810 The Colombian independence started in present Venezuela, which was part of Colombia at that time.
  • 1830 Bolivar was enthroned in Colombia in 1830. Colombia took the name of the former larger state.
• Mexico
  • 1810s Royal troops were defeated later on in the 1810s.
  • 19th century. American troops occupied most of Mexico. French troops tried to install a(n) (french) emperor of Mexico.
• Netherlands
  • 1813 Fortress Elmina was still Dutch, or was it French between 1810 and 1813?
  • 1940s European Netherlands were German occupied, but Suriname and the Curaçao remained Dutch.
• France
  • 1815 French Émigrées helped in the conquest of France to give the throne to Louis XVIII.
  • 1940 France was occupied by the Germans and they installed a puppet regime. Did the French colonies accept this, or did some of them immediately choose to support de Gaulle.
• Bolivia
  • 1839 Bolivia was part of the Peru-Bolivian Confederacy. Peru rioted against the president of this confederacy, who remained president of Bolivia.
• Brazil
  • 1820s Brazil became independent from Portugal, but the emperor of Brazil was temporarily king of Portugal in 1826.
• Belgium
  • 20th century. Belgium was occupied by the Germans, but kept the Belgian Congo.
• Italy
  • 1943 Italy was occupied by the Germans and the allies. Could the Italian government rule in the allied territory?
• Ireland
  • Ireland gains independence within the British Empire after a war of independence
  • 1931 Statute of Westminster: British Empire dissolved
• Egypt
  • 1922 Egypt kept the British governor-general and the british army. The post of governor-general was dissolved in 1936.
  • 1974 Egypt was known as the United Arab Republic until 1974. Syria belonged to this state until 1961.
• Dominican Republic
  • 1924 The Dominican Republic had a president before 1924, but was actually American occupied.
• Mongolia
  • 1920s Mongolia was declared independent of China in 1921, but a communist leader was named by the Soviet Union in 1924. The Soviet Union dominated Mongolian politics until 1991.
• Australia
  • 1901 Official independence
• Canada
  • 1867 Official independence
• New Zealand
  • 1907 Official independence
• South Africa
  • 1910 Independence within the British Empire declared by the British government
  • 1931 British Empire dissolved
  • 1961 Independence declared by South Africa
• Andorra
  • 1933 France occupies Andorra after internal unrest regarding the local elections.
• Lebanon
  • 1980s Most of Lebanon was occupied by Syria and Israel, while civil war was continuing in the rest of the country.
• Greece
  • 1940s Greece was nearly completely communistic in 1945. British troops defeated them helped by (reborn) nationalists.
• Austria
  • Austria became officially independent in 1955. Until 1955, most of Austria was occupied by the United States, Great Britain and France and a part of Austria was Soviet occupied. Austria had one native government for both parts of the country.
• Norway
  • 1940s Parts of Norway were controlled by partizans during the German occupation.
• Poland
  • 1945 Poland was ruled by a Soviet supported minority regime protected by the Red army until 1989.
• Bulgaria
  • 1946 Bulgaria was ruled by a Soviet supported minority regime protected by the Red army until 1989.
• Romania
  • 1947 Romania was ruled by a Soviet supported minority regime protected by the Red army, which became independent in the 1950s.
• North Korea
  • 1950s Most of North Korea was conquered by the United Nations. China reinstalled the communist regime.
• South Korea
  • 1950s Most of South Korea was first conquered by North Korea and then by China, but the area was reconquered by the United Nations.
• Indonesia
  • 1945 Independence was declared in 1945, which is the official date. However, dutch troops captured the Indonesian government and controlled most of the country until 1949. Independence was acknowledged by the Netherlands in 1949.
• Laos
  • 20th Century. Civil was raging in the country. Communists were supported by North Vietnam, who managed to conquer the capital.
• Taiwan
  • Taiwan is officially a part of China.
• Hungary
  • 1956 Hungary was ruled by a Soviet supported minority regime protected by the Red army until the 1980s.
• Congo-Kinshasa
  • 1996 Congo-Kinshasa was conquered by rebels in 1996 supported by Uganda and Rwanda.
• Somalia
  • 2006 Somalia is regarded as a failed state, without government control. The United States tried to help build up a state in 1992, but that was no succes.
• Rwanda
  • 1994 Rebels conquered Rwanda in 1994 supported by the French army.
• Rhodesia (Zimbabwe)
  • 1965 Official independence was in 1980. A minority regime of people who have trouble staying too long in the sun, was defeated by people who are black and beautiful in that year.
• Vietnam
  • 1976 South Vietnam was conquered by North Vietnam in 1975.
• Afghanistan
  • 1978 The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan and immediately installed a new regime, which was communist just like the old one.
  • 2001 The Northern Alliance defeated the Taliban regime supported by NATO.
• Cambodia
  • 1979 Vietnam invaded Cambodia and immediately installed a Vietnamese puppet regime.
• Uganda
  • 1979 Tanzania conquered Uganda supported by Ugandese rebels. These rebels took over control of Uganda.
• Grenada
  • 1983 The United States occupied Grenada and immediately installed a new regime.
• Panama
  • 1989 The United States invaded Panama and immediately installed a new president, who was followed by a democratically elected president. The presidential elections were before the American invasion, but the results were not acknowledged by president Noriega.
• Russia
  • 1991 The Soviet Union was called Russia by many people, because Russia was by far the most important member state. The Soviet Union resembled the old Russia from before the communist revolution of 1917.
• Bosnia and Hercegovina
  • 1990s Only the Bosnian muslims formed the early state in 1991. Serbs and Croats accepted independence later on in the 1990s and became part of the republic.
• Serbia and Montenegro
  • 1992 Serbia and Montenegro were called Yugoslavia for many years after 1992.
• Haiti
  • 1994 The United States invaded Haiti and immediately installed a new regime.
• Iraq
  • 2003 The United States invaded Iraq and prepared for national democratic elections in that country.

• Canada
  • It isn't really clear when Canada became independant, but 1867 is likely wrong. 1931 (Westminster) or 1982 (Consitution Act) are probly de facto and de jure, respectively.

[edit] Hungary

The 1956 date is wrong, for many reasons: first, because the 1956 revolution was suppressed, and second, because Hungary has never been part of the Soviet Union (it was a satellite state). The last time Hungary became independent was in 1918, from the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy. If we count being allied to the Soviet Union as being a part of the SU, then the independence date is October 23, 1989, when the People's Republic of Hungary became the non-communist Republic of Hungary. – Alensha 寫 词 18:59, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

1956 was used, because Hungary had a change of leadership after a military invasion. There are many countries with similar situations on the list.--Daanschr 20:30, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New definition

I will change the definition of this list after a discussion i had with User:Inge. This list will be changed in the coming days. The aim of this change is to keep the internal consistency, while still being able to live up to the NPOV-rules.--Daanschr 08:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

My proposition will be to change 'complete occupation' into occupation of the capital. This would be an easy defenition that can quickly be inserted into the article.--Daanschr 11:17, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I decided to keep the old definition for determining self-determination. Problems arising the occupation of a capital were numerous.

Problem 1: The republic of Turkey was established in 1923 with Ankara as the capital. Istanbul, the old capital, was still occupied at that moment. The allies couldn't occupy the whole of Turkey. The Turkish army of the republic of Turkey was the same as the imperial Ottoman Turkish army.

Problem 2: The occupation of Madrid by Franco was part of a violent ending of a civil war which took years. Can a regime change after a civil war be the start of self-determination. The same accounts for the occupation of Lisbon in 1833. The Portugeese problem is even more difficult, because the emperor of Brazil and king of Portugal was defeated at that moment. The conquest of Lisbon by the liberals meant the end of the imperial regime which lingered on in brazil for decades to come.--Daanschr 10:57, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

User:Inge, if you take the trouble to end up here and want to have a say on my revertion of your edit, then i would like to have a discussion with you on all dates of self-determination instead of only those of World War II and the colonies. The 1833 Portugal issue would be an interresting start for a debate for instance.--Daanschr 11:03, 28 October 2006 (UTC)