User talk:Lokesh 2000

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Thanx for your help in Mundakaupanishad Tux the penguin 10:37, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for you corrections in Sri Padmanabhaswamy temple. --Bhadani 06:28, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding transliteration of "Janaka" as 'janak'

Hello, AFAIK the name should be pronounced as "janak" for the transliteration (and in Sanskrit). That is because in Hindi or Sanskrit or any other language that is based on Sanskrit the last "a" of the word is not uttered unless the word requires it. For example, राम् ("Rama" in English) transliterates to "Rām" not "Rāma" because we say it as "Rām" (Rā-m) and not "Rāma" (Rā-ma). Also, although commonly written as राम, the "ma" is always cut to "m" and the last "a" is not uttered - this is implicit and while writing, the last character is usually written as "म" instead of "म्" to save time and extra effort. But "म्" is the correct one, especially while writing single words. See also Talk:Janaka Rohitbd 10:15, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rohit, I'm afraid that is not the correct understanding, in sanskrit last "a" is uttered. I think in north indian languages such as hindi, last "a" is not uttered because of persian or urdu influence. many south indian languages such as kannada which use loads of sanskrit words last "a" is uttered and is important part of word. in sanskrit "म" is pronounced "ma" and "म्" is just "m" without last "a". you can confirm this with any sanskrit wikipedia editor. please also note that wikipedia pages on Rama, shiva krishna and Ganasha are worded in correct pronounciation, if one goes by your understanding, they should have been "Ram", "Shiv" and "Krishn" that is not right, and sounds as mistake to one who knows sanskrit.

Hi Lokesh,

Well I did have a look at Sanskrit learning software www.sanskrit-lamp.org...and the tutorials do say that the last "a" is not uttered and while writing, the termination indicator is used to specify that (you have to download and install the software first). It also says that for normal writing the termination indicator may not be used since it is implicit unless the context demands so. Also, in my humble opinion, even though most South Indian (in fact most Indian) languages borrow a lot from Sanskrit, they do not necessarily pronounce them in Sanskrit - so we cannot use them as a reference to write Sanskrit words. That said, I am no expert in Sanskrit, but if you have more knowledge of it than me then I shall change it. Or refer the issue to someone who is an expert. Till then I suggest keeping the status quo - repeated reverting will only create unnecessary history copies.

P.S.: While posting on talk pages, please sign it in the end by using ~~~~ (4 tildes).

Rohitbd 09:23, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rohit,

I vote that we should ask opinion of a sanskrit wikipedia editor.

I have learnt sanskrit in my highschool for 3 years and thats is how we used to write the sanskrit in devanagari script. we used to write "म्" only when last "a" is not required in the pronounciation. as you wrote, tutorial also said that termination indicator is used when last is "a" is not uttered. It implies that when last "a" is used, we should not use termination indicator. otherwise there is no use of termination indicator. please see pages for Rama Ganesha and shiva, there you can see termination indicator is not used in sanskrit transiteration. Lokesh 2000 10:43, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Lokesh, I think there is a basic conflict here of pronounciation...I mean if we could actually hear each other talk we might be able to clear it better. In the case of "Krishna" (Eng), the last "a" is uttered as "krish-Na" and not "krish-N" but for "Rama" (Eng) it is uttered as "rā-m" and not "rā-ma" and hence the writing is correct for Krishna but not for Rama. Rama is spelt in Sanskrit as well as pronounced without the ending "a". For example your name "Lokesh" is correctly written in Sanskrit as लोकेश् (lo-ké-sh) and not लोकेश (lo-ké-sha). My name "Rohit" is written in Sanskrit as रोहित् (ro-hi-t) and not रोहित (ro-hi-ta). In both cases the ending अ implicit in श and त is not pronounced - hence truncated by using the truncation operator to श् and त्. But for most practical purposes, our names will be written as लोकेश and रोहित instead of लोकेश् and रोहित् simply because the cutting-off of the ending "a" in both cases is implicit (and it is also more convenient). But the latter two are the correct way of writing especially if they occur singly to indicate their correct pronounciation - in a sentence the context itself dictates whether the ending "a" is pronounced/spelt or not. Thus for Ganesha and Shiva, the corresponding pronounciations are "ga-Né-sh" (गणेश्) and "shi-v" (शिव्) instead of "ga-Né-sha" (गणेश) and "shi-va" (शिव). Again, it is more common to write the latter two but while pronouncing the former are used. Writing "Ganesha" or "Shiva" in English is common, but that does not mean that it is correct and it would be erroneous to use the English spelling of Sanskrit or Devanagari words as a reference to write those words in Sanskrit & Devanagari. That said, if you so insist I shall change the text - but I would also prefer that the matter be first referred to someone who is very well-versed in Sanskrit. Rohitbd 11:12, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

In Hindi, we do not include the termination operator for words. But Sanskrit requires it to correctly indicate the termination of "a". In fact my assumption that excluding it for Sanskrit in normal usage is perhaps wrong - it may be required everywhere. Consider the word for "elephant" (गज):

In Sanskrit: गज transliterates to ga-ja.

In Hindi: गज transliterates to ga-j (implicit exclusion of ending "a").

So, as far as writing in Sanskrit goes, if we want to actually pronounce ga-j (like in Hindi) then we have to write it as गज् and not गज. Similarly for गणेश which in Hindi is ga-Né-sh (without the ending "a" - implicit) but has to be written as गणेश् in Sanskrit to be pronounced as ga-Né-sh. Writing in Sanskrit as गणेश would be pronounced (in Sanskrit) as ga-Né-sha. So as long as we want to provide the Sanskrit names we should indicate them with the termination operator (for the correct pronounciation) and omit the operator if we want to provide the Hindi name. Rohitbd 12:40, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

• Firstly see WP:HINDU#Naming_and_Transliteration, this is current manual of style that was set up for all Hindu words, (Gods. important people, rishis , concepts etc). Our current policy states the last "a" should be written, reason because "only Hindi drops off the a, most other modern Indian languages (I forgot the example, think it was Gujarati or Marathi) and more importantly Sanskrit did pronounce the a and that MORE THAN 75% OF ENGLISH TEXT BOOKS USE THIS CONVENTION

• • The English Text book is important, because this is english wikipedia, not hindi version or sanskrit. It is more likely that people in the U.S., Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand know who Rama is than Ram and who Shiva is than Shiv. Personally I still slightly disagreed because for pronunciational purposes, English speakers would pronounce Rama as रामा rather than राम and Ram will be closer to the correct pronunciation. By the looks of things, with more members in WikiProject Hinduism, it will probably be discussed again. DaGizza^{Chat (c)} 20:07, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Rohit, User:DaGizzas reply it is clear that in sanskrit last "a" uttered. so I request you to fix janaka article. Lokesh 2000 05:49, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Well not really...it is only for the convenience of English speakers that this is followed. Although I am still not convinced, I shall go ahead and make the changes for the sake of standards. Rohitbd 12:03, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Articles merged

Lokesh, you'll note that I have merged the article "Ideal way of life with Hindus" with Taittiriya Upanishad. I'll try copy-editing this article over the next few days. Of course, feel free to add content to it in the meantime. Hopefully with collaboration we will greatly improve the article !
Also, you should definitely participate in the Portal:India/Quiz. Currently it is somewhat frozen because we are waiting for response from a new user, but it should be back in action soon. Typically we see 5-10 new questions posted everyday and they touch upon all kinds of areas related to India. Abecedare 09:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

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