Talk:Malay language

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Contents 1 "Kereta" issue 2 Early discussion 3 Taman haiwan? 4 Number of speakers 5 "Bahasa Malaysia" 6 What alphabet is used? 7 malay language or malaysian language? 8 Only 3 native words? 9 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica 10 Days of the Week? 11 "Malay" vs. "Bahasa Melayu" 12 East Timor 13 "Derived" words in Tagalog 14 Grammar 15 Sounded political 16 buku 17 Glottal Stops and Tonic Syllables

[edit] "Kereta" issue

The Malay word for "car" is "kereta". Since I am Russian, I couldn't have avoid noticing the odd similarity. In Russian, a "kAreta" (sounds similar) means carriage. I have no idea how a Russian word could have been adopted in Malaysia but, still, the similarity stuns me. Any ideas? 218.208.238.245 13:35, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure either, but the word kereta have been used before the europeans set foot on Malay land. It might be from sanskrit.141.213.240.242 08:04, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Nah, that word comes from the Dutch language. Its written in the Malaysian History Form 2 textbooks if you want proof.

Actually, it seems more likely to come from Portuguese carreta "carriage", "cart", given the large amount of Portuguese loanwords in Malay and the fact that it is a quite common word in Portuguese (it would be very easy to be picked up by Malays dealing with portuguese merchants, for instance). Of course, the common origin of Portuguese carreta and Russian kAreta, mentioned above, is Italian carreta, although it doesn't matter much here. Conclusion: the Malay word is from Portuguese, for sure.201.21.200.15 02:19, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Early discussion

The Indonesian universitas is actually Latin and not Dutch. In the fifties all loanwords from Dutch which end with "-iteit" were changed to "-itas" in Indonesian c.f. in Latin. Previously it was "-iteit", then "-itet".

Meursault2004 16:35, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

---

"bercekap" as ub speak is spelled wrong. Cekap means efficient, cakap means speak/talk. I changed it. : 219.95.162.32 09:30, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Taman haiwan?

I don't know if this makes it ungrammatical Malay-wise, but no one in Malaysia actually says "taman haiwan" anymore - they just refer to it as "zoo".

[edit] Number of speakers

According to Languages Spoken, Malay is spoken by 160 million people worldwide, an order of magnitude greater than what the article says. Which figure should be used on Wikipedia to represent the number of speakers - 7-18 million or 160 million? ~Alon. 09:36, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

If that articles says 160 million, it most likely lump together speakers of the related languages Malay language (7–18 million total) and Indonesian language (17–30 million native, 140 million total). See the language genetic classification, "Local Malay" is the root for both. IANotALinguist, IAAEngineer. ;-) -- sabre23t 06:59, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Malay is a name of a race in Malaysia. Refer to the population of Malay people in Malaysian ia about 51% of about/more 25 millions. They are the origin of the country. The language been use is Malay language (abbreviation of Bahasa Malaysia.) Malay / Bahasa Malaysia is totally different than Bahasa Indonesia in sound & meanings for example :

"Selamat Petang" - Malay words for Good evening.
"Selamat Sore" - Bahasa Indonesia for Good evening.

Not every malays can speak Bahasa Indonesia fluently and vice versa eventhough they look alike.

[edit] "Bahasa Malaysia"

I just wanted to note that I edited the reference to "Bahasa Malaysia" as the official language of Malaysia. That designation hasn't been used for some years now, and its official name has reverted to "Bahasa Melayu." If anyone has evidence to the contrary, please let us know.

Michael

[edit] What alphabet is used?

Is it Jawi or Latin? Both? If so, which is used when? I'm still confused. --Bash 7 July 2005 19:31 (UTC)

During precolony and early colony era, Jawi is a dominant script for Malay. Due to the colonization (initiated by Portugal) roman alphabet being introduced. However Jawi's still used today only for heritage and islamic studies. most of younger generation still can read Jawi although they prefer to write in roman. Similar thing happens to almost all malayan languages (malayo-polynesians) such as javanese, sundanese and tagalogs (obviously). Zaidpjd 0.45 October 20, 2005 (UTC)

Previously, the Malay, have no writing skill. Jawi is introduce to Malay during the time of Malacca straits trading between the middle east and west for the spice and the location as the heart of south east asia. During the time the middle east people has contribute the islam religion & jawi writing. Then, due to the colonization (initiated by Portugal) roman alphabet being introduced and proper education by the british and nothing by the japanese.

This is simply untrue. The Malays were using a script related to those used by some of the languages of South India prior to the advent of Islam. Prior to Jawi, Javanese used an Indic script, and presumably other Malaysian/Indonesian tribes used a similar writing system. Those areas of the Philippines not converted to Islam by the time of the arrival of the Spanish were using scripts closely related to Javanese before the transition to Latin took hold.

[edit] malay language or malaysian language?

I think there's some confusion here. This article is actually mainly about malaysian language not malay language. The reason is that the malay is regulated by mabbim (majlis bahasa brunei, indonesia dan malaysia, the council of brunei, indonesian and malaysian languages). And malaysian language is regulated by Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka Malaysia. It's true that malay language is widely spoken at Malaysia and Brunei and because of this, people usually think that malaysian language is the malay language. I think the best way to express this is that malaysian language is part of malay language. Same goes to Indonesian and Brunei's. For certain reasons, both malaysia and indonesia (I'm not sure about Bruneis') government use terminologies Malaysian and Indonesian languages (one of the reasons is that to unite these multi racial countries.) For academic reason, most of malaysian academicians use malay language in their writings and conversations. Nonetheless, malay language has broader vocabulary than malaysian language (because it is a compilation of indonesian, brunei's and malaysian). Indonesians however are in favor with their national language maybe because of their highly patriotic spirit. The pronounciation is also standardized and it's called Bahasa Baku. Bahasa Baku is widely spoken in Indonesia, East Malaysia and Brunei's. However it's not popular in West Malaysia mainly due to the heavy influence of Riau dialect or Riau language (the 'parent' of malay language). Zaidpjd 22.45 October 19 2005 (UTC)

I don't think there's any much difference between Malay language in Brunei, Singapore and Malaysia. Structurally speaking, they all have similar grammars and vocabulary and no big difference at all. Furthermore, in Brunei all Malay language academic textbook for school are written both by Malaysians and Bruneians. In Brunei, when we use the Malay language for official writings and conversations, we call it standard Malay as not to be confused with local Malay dialect in each country. I hope people stop referring Malay language as Bahasa Malaysia, because Bahasa Malaysia is (standard) Malay language.Gross 11:46, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Then, who's regulating this language? Is it Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka (DBP)? or MABBIM? Because Malay wikipedia stated that it's regulated by MABBIM, not DBP. And I'm not quite sure when you stated that Malaysian is a standard Malay language. And I already asked a linguist professor from Malaya University, he clearly said that Malaysian and Indonesian are part of Malay language. That's why Malay is regulated by MABBIM, not DBP. And talking about DBP, there's two DBP, Malaysia and Brunei and both departments regulating their own Malay languages (the Bruneis and Malaysian). 141.213.240.242 06:29, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I was not referring to Malaysian but the term Bahasa Malaysia. Bahasa Malaysia is, as the article of Malay language states, Malay language. I've seen many articles in Wikipedia stating Bahasa Malaysia for Malay language instead of Malay. Now what I meant by standard Malay is the formal usage of Malay conforming grammar structure in textbooks or schools, which are being regulated by local DBP and/or MABBIM. So hopefully people stop referring Malay as Bahasa Malaysia.Gross 08:15, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Bahasa Malaysia is the national language of Malaysia in year XXXX. Previously, it was known Bahasa Melayu during Malaysia is known as Tanah Melayu. Unfortunately, the english has associated it to the word "Malay" for malay people and language. Name of the language is been change, with more adaption of external english and others word. Example: Technology in english become technologie in Bahasa Malaysia which this term is not indicate in Bahasa Melayu. But the word of "maju ke hadapan" is origin of a malay language and many others. Today, "Bahasa Baku" is been use in commercial with obvious pronunciation of "a" sound like the Americane. Is it going to be the language after "Bahasa Malaysia" and "Bahasa Melayu"?

Constitutionally, it has always been Bahasa Melayu (ie Malay language). It has never been changed. __earth ^(Talk) 23:54, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Only 3 native words?

I'm not sure I'm interpreting this sentence correctly: It is said that the pure Malay words are "Beras", "Besi' and "Babi". All the other words were actually borrowed mainly from Arabic, Sanskrit, Tamil and other languages. Is that to say that the Malaysian language only has three native words, or are those names for the language? And is it actually true, or is it a joke? Rōnin 01:41, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

It is a joke for there is other words of malays such as "sayang", "kasih", "cinta" which means love. The best native word is " Terima Kasih" means thank you.

Thanks :) Rōnin 23:44, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica

" Malay is essentially, with few exceptions, a dissyllabic language, and the syllabic accent rests on the penultimate unless that syllable is open and short; e.g. datang, namaa, bhsr, diumpatkanflalah. Nothing in the form of a root word indicates the grammatical category to which it belongs; thus, kasih, kindness, affectionate, to love; ganti, a proxy, to exchange, instead of. It is only in derivative words that this vagueness is avoided. Derivation is effected by infixes, prefixes, affixes and reduplication. Infixes occur more rarely in Malay than in the cognate tongues. Examples are guruh, a rumbling noise, gumuruh, to make such a noise; tunjuli, to point, telunjuk, the forefinger; chuchuk, to pierce, cheruchuk, a stockade. The import of the prefixes me (mbng, mhfl, men, mhm), pe (peng, pen, pen, pem), ber (bel), per, phl, ka, di, thr,and affixes -- an, kan, i, lah -- will best appear from the following examples root word ajar, to teach, to learn; mengajar, to instruct (expresses an action); belajar, to study (state or condition); mengajari, to instruct (some one, trans.); mengajarkan, to instruct (in something, causative); pengajar, the instructor; pelajar, the learner; pkngajara n, the lesson taught, also the school; pelajaran, the lesson learnt; diajar, to be learnt; terajar, learnt; terajarkan, taught; terajari, instructed; [peraja (from raja, prince), to recognize as prince; perajakan, to crown as prince; karajaan, royalty]; ajarkanlah, teach! Examples of reduplication are ajar-ajar, a sainted person; ajar-berajar (or belajar), to be learning and teaching by turns; similarly there are forms like ajar-mengajar, berajar-ajaran, ajar-ajari, memperjar, mempirajarkan, memperajari, terbelajarkan, perbelajarkan, &c. Altogether there are upwards of a hundred possible derivative forms, in the idiomatic use of which the Malays exhibit much skill. See especially H. von Dewall, De vormveranderingen der Maleische taal (Batavia, 1864) and J. Pijnappel, Maleisch-Ilollandsch Woordenboek (Amsterdam, 1875), Inleiding. In every other respect the language is characterized by great simplicity and indefiniteness. There is no inflexion to distinguish number, gender or case. Number is never indicated when the sense is obvious or can be gathered from the context; otherwise plurality is expressed by adjectives such as sagala, all, and bak, many; more rarely by the repetition of the noun, and the indefinite singular by sa or stu, one, with a class-word. Gender may, if necessary, be distinguished by the words laki-laki, male, and perampilan, female, in the case of persons, and of jantan and bitina in the case of animals. The genitive case is generally indicated by the position of the word after its governing noun. Also adjectives and demonstrative pronouns have their places after the noun. Comparison is effected by the use of particles. Instead of the personal pronouns, both in their full and abbreviated forms, conventional nouns are in frequent use to indicate the social position or relation of the respective interlocutors, as, e.g. hamba tuan, the masters slave, i.e. I. These nouns vary according to the different localities. Another peculiarity of Malay (and likewise of Chinese, Shan, Talaing, Burmese and Siamese) is the use of certain classwords or coefficients with numerals, such as orang (man),when speaking of persons, ekor (tail) of animals, keping (piece) of flat things, biji (seed) of roundish things; e.g. lima biji, tilor, five eggs. The number of these class-words is considerable. Malay verbs have neither person or number nor mood or tense. The last two are sometimes indicated by particles or auxiliary verbs; but these are generally dispensed with if the meaning is sufficiently plain without them. The Malays avoid the building up of long sentences. The two main rules by which the order of the words in a sentence is regulated are subject, verb, object; and qualifying words follow those which they qualify. "

-- from the "Malay People" article in the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica -- Ancheta Wis 11:20, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Days of the Week?

Would it be worth noting that the Malay names for the days of the week (Isnin, Selasa, Rabu, etc) are also borrowed from Arabic? Personally, I find 'borrowed words' to be the most interesting section of every language article, but the list that the article has so far is quite long, and I'm not sure whether it would be relevant or overkill to add the days of the week as well. Also I'm not sure whether the names of the days of the week in Indonesian Malay are the same as Malaysian and Bruneian Malay... can anyone clarify? If the information is deemed worthy, I'll add it. Paperdoll51 03:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to post so late, but I think that's a good idea.

• Ahad - Yaumul Ahad The first day
• Isnin - Yaumul Isnain The second day
• Selasa - Yaumul Salasa The third day
• Rabu - Yaumul Arba'a The fourth day
• Khamis - Yaumul Khomsah The fifth day
• Jumaat - Jum'at Named because it's the day Muslims perform their Friday's prayer (Jum'ah Solah). :Could be from the word Jum'ah meaning gathering since Friday's prayer is perform in jemaah :(its like in groups) in mosques. So, perhaps Yaumul Jum'ah means the day of gathering.
• Sabtu - Yaumul Sabt The seventh day.

I think that's why in Kelantan, Terengganu and Kedah, they start weekdays from Sundays.

Hope this helps the article. Perhaps someone who can speak arabic fluently could help clarify my :translation before posting it.RiZius 14:41, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Indonesian spell some of the days differently: Senin, Selasa, Rabu, Kamis, Jum'at, Sabtu, Minggu (Ahad is rarely used). Hayabusa future 14:06, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Malay" vs. "Bahasa Melayu"

What is the difference within Malaysia between "Malay" and "Bahasa Melayu"??? Are these 2 official languages within the country? I always thought they were one in the same (except 1 was the English word and the other a local language name for the same thing). HOWEVER, i just came across an article in wikipedia saying that road signs in Malaysia are sometimes written in "Malay", "Bahasa Melayu" and "English". Huh?? What's the difference between the first two? I realise that linguistic academics sometimes refer to malay languages group (which includes say Indonesian), but i accept the distinction between this and the official national language of Malaysia. Rather, my specific querstion is, within Malaysia, are the languages "Malay" and "Bahasa Melayu 2" seperate languages spoken? Are they really both listed on some signs? See the 2nd paragraph of this page. --Merbabu 02:09, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Bahasa Melayu and Malay are exactly the same thing. Note that Bahasa Malaysia however refers to the standardized form of Malaysian Malay (i.e. textbook language, ignoring regional variants). Bahasa Melayu (or simply Malay) is a general term which can either be the standardized form or other variants and dialects spoken in Southeast Asia. Similarly, Bahasa Indonesia is a form of Malay (hence a form of Bahasa Melayu) which the standardized form used in Indonesia. In the Philippines, standardized Tagalog is called Filipino. --Anggerik 17:08, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] East Timor

Both this article and the Indonesian language article claim that the respective language is one of the offical working languages. Since East Timor was part of Indonesia, I bet it's Indonesian, not Malay. Should be changed here, if that't the case. JAL 82.92.15.150 11:50, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Derived" words in Tagalog

The part mentioning how Tagalog/Filipino borrowed Malay words does not ring entirely true.

• Sakit - common in many of the Philippine languages.
• Salamat - that will have to be researched as it may not be even Malay to begin with!
• Bihon - most likely Chinese (Hakka) and not Malay in origin. From rice noodle 米粉
• Tauhu - C'mon Tofu (?) is Malay? Of Chinese origin, lit. fermented bean 豆腐
• Tulong - Another word common in Philippine languages.
• Mangga - This is from one of the Dravidian languages of S. India. But, it's form may have come via the Portuguese.

If anything, the section should say that Tagalog (and many Philippine languages for that matter) are cognate with, not derived from, Malay.

The following link should shed some light. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austronesian_languages Joemaza 23:28, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

---

some words might be the same meaning in other language but we do not know which one is right or not. but i am sure that it comes from malay because bahasa melayu is popular in malay archipelango and probably they 'trade' words that comes from bahasa melayu.

and by the way, some of them are spelt wrongly. it's tolong, not tulong and it means help. and c'mon, chinese came to malaysia and trade with them before and they showed their language to malay people, they also showed 'sempoa'(it probably comes from chinese language) to calculate things (ancient calculator) and it is still used now. bihon is a type of noodle which is thin and white. hakka is not a malay word and i know what is it and it is a noodle which is very different from what you say because the hakka noodle is not slim or whatever you call it. ok? mangga is a mango and mark it*, it is not portuguese word because since their invasion or exploration came to malaysia, they took the words and borrowed it from malay language.

bahasa melayu does not always comes from the other language like indian, chinese, portuguese and so on. we might not know because almost everything (i meant by bahasa melayu only) comes from malaysian history. you know why they come to malaysia because of silk, spice, ores and so on. philipines probably not one of them because they are in an island and they are separated. who knows?

whatever it is, malay culture and it's language (bahasa melayu) will not dissapear as well as malay archipelango which speaks almost malay language. it is not only malaysia, but the whole world like philipines, china, thailand, vietnam and southeast asian countries.

and also, not to forget that some* vietnamese, burmese and thai people (i think) can speak malay. they were called "Melayu Champa."

Bahasa Menunjukkan Bangsa... User:sayasakit092 2:48AM, November 4th 2006.

Here's MY take:

• If it's Tolong, then it's Tolong in Malay; Tulong in Tagalog, Ilokano, Sugbuanon (Cebuano) et alii. U/O were not highly differentiated in the proto language. There were only four vowels, /a/, /i/, /u/ and /ə/.

• Hakka is the name of a people from China. You didn't read the line correctly.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakka) The noodles is of question and it's name comes from the language of the Hakka. They were known to be a seafairing people and many words in the Filipino languages can be traced back to Hakka, especially words related to food and cooking. I bet if I got my hands on an accredited Malay dictionary, replete with etymologies, I'd find an entry for Bihun, and it would say Hakka or at least of Chinese origin.

• Mango is Tamil. I mentioned that it may have come via the Portuguese (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Mango). Many words that are listed in the article are of Portuguese derivation and it was a possibility.

• I didn't say that Malay should dissappear as you seem to purport.

• Also, I will repeat COGNATE; one is not derived from the other, but derived from a proto-Autronesian language. Again: If anything, the section should say that Tagalog (and many Philippine languages for that matter) are cognate with, not derived from, Malay.

By the looks of your response, you didn't even BOTHER to take a look at the article about Austronesian languages before firing off your reply: (sic) bahasa melayu does not always comes from the other language like indian, chinese, portuguese and so on. But, in fact it does, a proto-Austronesian language from the island of Taiwan.

• As for the Philippines, an archipelago (a group of islands), was a main trading post of the Spanish for over 400 years. (sic) you know why they come to malaysia because of silk, spice, ores and so on. philipines probably not one of them because they are in an island and they are separated. who knows?

• Those austronesian peoples of Vietnam are Cham. They speak another Austronesian language, but NOT Malay. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cham_language)

• And, if you don't know, then find out. That's what I did with my response. I reasearched my response EVEN when I knew that the information was misleading. I had to find proof... So, far, you're not wowwing me.

1. You didn't read the line about the Hakka correctly, and you took Hakka to mean a noodle, not a people from China.
2. You assert that the Philippines was not part of any trade in the area, when it was for several centuries under Spanish rule.
3. You didn't read the article regarding the Austronesian languages.
4. Although I do not deny the fact that Malay is spoken outside of Malaysia, you seem to assert that the languages (some 70-80) of the Philippines, Guam and Cham are all derived from Malay, which is false.
5. You didn't research on the Wikipedia or anywhere else, period.

Joemaza 00:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Joemaza has done a good job explaining the scientific linguistic view of how Historical Linguistics and Modern day linguistic theory supports his assertions about word etymologies and language origins. I suggest that Sayasakit092 either take some University level course on Linguistics or not post about this subject at all. Atamagaii 03:46, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

To Atamagaii, Joemaza , or everybody

i am sorry. but i am not university person, Atamagaii, and i am 12 years old. probably i did a mistake because i read a book about languages and it says things i said. and it's an encyclopedia, i don't remember what is the title because i used it in library. i don't have a good grammar or languages in english. but i have a good grammar in my own language and i know where does my language come from, originally, not in malaysia if i'm not mistaken. but one thing that probably some countries said it's their own word (for example: manga, as someone said that it's an srivijayan word.) but they did not know that other people's language has the same meaning with it. sometimes i am too curious and i skim read the article. please i'm sorry.

And my 2nd last word is, Atamagaii, you should respect the other people, not to insult people. if you ask me to go to university taking about level course on linguistic in university, i suggest you should go to kindergarten or primary school learn how to respect people. i mean, if you have something to say, you should respect people because people might have other ideas or knowledge that came from other sources, and it's probably wrong. you should give some more examples to me, otherwise don't write what you want to say. and i am sorry.

i am so sorry again if i insult or showing things that is not true which might be an insult to other languages, especially to joemaza, really sorry, i'll pullback my words that i wrote before. and i do not plan or think to surprising or wowwing you.

mistakes on what i mean: joemaza, i know that you don't mean by dissappearing malay but what i mean is that people in malaysia use their malay and mix them with english. so, our languages became bad. for example, a sentence: i don't care 'lah!'. the term of 'lah' is used in some words, just like we said in english, beco'ming.' but it is in the end of the word. Siapakah kamu? means Who are you? which you might know. that's an example. and second of all, the problem is that not many people speaks malay, malay people speaks malay but some people used it in a wrong way, which what i meant dissapearing. i can't give you example of it because most people don't use it because it's not appropriate.

and cham language is malay. cham language is malay and when you spelt it, is malay. just the pronounciation when someone talk doesn't sound like malay. there is austronesian language but austronesian is australia and new zealand. vietnam is not located in austronesian countries. it is in southeast asia, if you know. and again, different people had different sources. and like you said, who knows. we do not have a person like in UN, they have 'chair', which is the person who declares people who won the debate. i knew this by reading it's own website, http://www.un.org/, but that's another story.

User:Sayasakit092 9:59PM 26 December 2006

---

To put the discussion back on track, here's another question about borrowed words:

In the list there's the word dua which of course reminds one of the Sanskrit word for "two", dva (or the Persian as you like, of Indo-European origin, at least). Now, I've just got Dempwolffs book open in front of me ("Vergleichende Lautlehre des Austronesischen Wortschatzes", 1934), and I see that there are quite a few cognate words in the related "Indonesian", "Melanesian", and "Polynesian" languages, namely:

"Uraustronesisch" ḍuva‘ "two":

• Tagalog dalawá’,
• Toba Batak dua‘,
• Javanese loro‘,
• "Ngadju-Dajak" due‘,
• "Hova" rua‘,
• Fiji rua‘,
• Sa'a rue‘, ro‘,
• Tonga ‘ua’,
• Futuna/Samoa lua‘

I am not an expert in Austronesian linguistics, so I ask you, out of interest, if it is possible that this is a borrowing from Sanskrit or Persian that has spread all over the Austronesian territory, or is this correspondence between two very different language families - the Indo-European and the Austronesian - just a curious coincidence?

130.60.142.66 13:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grammar

A grammar section would be useful, covering issues such as word order (SVO?), plural, tense, copula, and anything else which shows that Malay (or at least basic Malay) is grammatically easy (if I remember correctly). Measure words and prefixes (but not suffixes) are already there is some form. --Henrygb 19:02, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I want to say that I'm pleased to see a fuller grammar section. Congratulations. Being a linguist, I'd love to see a lot more, if possible. Joemaza 00:50, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sounded political

I can't help but noticing that the 'Writing system' section sounded a tad political than what it should've been. No idea how to change it to make it sound more neutral. Anyone can help?

--Danazach 19:32, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Danazach,

My $0.02:-

"Latin on the other hand shows the dark age of Malay where Malays are taken over and exploited by European foreign powers; Portugal, the Netherlands and Great Britain."

Perhaps "dark age" could be replaced by another word? The Latin alphabet is used widely by a number of languages - and the shift to using this writing system could be a method of standardisation.

[edit] buku

Wouldn't this word's origin rather be the Dutch "boek" than the English "book"? Marvan 18:55, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Glottal Stops and Tonic Syllables

Hi everyone. I have decided to ask these questions in the hopes that someone - maybe a native speaker or a someone with more expertise on the subject - can add these clarifications to the "Phonology" section of the article, because it has been sometime since I am looking for these answers, and I am sure more beginning students of these languages have been having the same doubts as me:

1. I think I read somewhere that in Malay and Indonesian there is an "automatic" glottal stop before each word-initial vowel (even if this vowel is preceeded by a word ending in a consonant), and between any vowels - with the exception of diphthongs, obviously. I did not gave this much thought though, until I realized that that was the way the words were being pronounced in the "Rosetta Stone - Indonesian" language learning software. So here is the question: In the "RS-I" software, are the words being pronounced like that just to make them more easily intelligible for beginners like myself, or are they really pronounced like that in everyday conversations? For instance, a simple sentence like

Apakah ada seorang pria di atas rumah itu?

Would be pronounced

[ʔa'pakah 'ʔada se'ʔorang 'pria di 'ʔatas 'rumah 'ʔitu]

Or, in normal (or maybe fast-paced) conversation,

[a'pakah'adase'orang'priadi'atas'rumah'itu]?

(' = Tonic Syllable)

2. In the same software ("Rosetta Stone - Indonesian"), the tonic syllables of some words seem to be the last one instead of the penultimate, even when the vowel in this syllable is not the schwa, and some words even seem to "change" their tonic syllable according to who is saying them. So here is the other question: Are the accentuation rules really just

"If the penultimate has a schwa, the last syllable is the tonic one; if the penultimate does not have a schwa, the penultimate is the tonic one;"

Or is this wrong?

Thank you very much, XVoX 23:56, 20 February 2007 (UTC)