Talk:Malayan Emergency

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relevenc to kashmir insurgency

fixed a minor spelling/grammatical error (begun became began), otherwise, excellent article with clear implications for today.-- spm

Contents 1 Second Malaysian Emergency 2 SEATO 3 Merge Briggs Plan into this article 4 Communist support & reason for the war to break 5 WP:MilHist Assessment 6 article name 7 This should be in the cold war reference section

[edit] Second Malaysian Emergency

Should it be noted here, or a new article started? – Matthew A. Lockhart ^(talk)

There's a second emergency? Or is that referring to the spate of communist uprisings after the fall of South Vietnam?

There is a second insurgency, circa 1969 - 1980. Compared to the first insurgency, the second is harsher. Though the areas affected is much lesser compared to the first emergency. The Government of Malaysia also had to contend with a number of different rebel groups, altogether 4 including the PKKU in East Malaysia. The four includes two splinter groups from the original MCP. I don't have much details on the whole insurgency, however.

[edit] SEATO

The article says "Australia was willing to send troops to help a SEATO ally" but according to SEATO Malaya/Malaysia was never a member. Could this be referring to the fact that the UK was also a SEATO member? Wouldn't there be a more relevant treaty between the Aussies and Brits then, seeing as SEATO was never a major factor in Southeast Asian geopolitics? Johnleemk | Talk 15:52, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge Briggs Plan into this article

A Google search on "Briggs Plan" only gets 569 hits. The separate article adds little further information. And, by the way, there's also another article on Harold Briggs for his own notability. --Mereda 14:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Disagree. Malayan Emergency deals with macro level of the conflict while Briggs Plan takes on the micro. On Google, in Malay, it's "rancangan briggs" [1] and that offer another 1000+ result. Briggs is an historical important move by the Brit in Malaya. If the number of Google result is the basis of merge, than Korsun-Cherkassy Pocket (which has around 1000 results) should be merged with Eastern Front (World War II). Problem with Google that it doesn't have much mention about obscure subject. It might be a systemic bias given that the plan has more mention in one language but not English. Pardon my grammar, I'm having a minor headache. __earth ^(Talk) 15:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

• Accuracy. The current article is weak, however suitable the Briggs Plan might be as good micro subject in principle. There are very few points in it that aren't in the Malayan Emergency article; and, where there are, it's partly inaccurate. It says, wrongly, that the Briggs Plan was (just) a resettlement plan. A more accurate description would mention its strategy and other specific elements, like the joint civil-military-police work [2][3]. So, even as a stub, the article needs a bit of remedial work if it isn't to be merged. --Mereda 10:05, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• For the same reasons as __earth, I think merging wouldn't be a good idea. The Briggs Plan is very much a seperate concept from the Emergency. Johnleemk | Talk 13:47, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

• I agree with this article not being merged, as the user above states, they are very much seperate. -- Imperator Honorius 14:30, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

• I agree with this article not being merged. Briggs Plan is basically a military & political long term strategy and wills, with no expectation of speedy and decisive results. The success of this Plan against guerilla warfare is unparallel since, although it has been emulated in various forms in other countries. The Briggs Plan show an effective and credible mission analysis at it best, as one cannot prevail over what one does not understand. The discussion on the planning, tactic, implementation, and success need to be laid out in clear and detail if one want to know what make it so successful in Malaysia, but not in others countries. Yosri 10:40, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

• Don't Merge. The Briggs plan is a big enough subject to warrant its own article, and I thinl we should leave the article to grow, even if it is not presently extremely good. Chroma liberator

[edit] Communist support & reason for the war to break

I don't quite agree on the matter on why the war broke. The reason given in the wiki said that the minority Chinese felt oppressed. The better way to state it out should be non-Malayan Chinese. Malayan Chinese (or second or third generation Chinese) are closer to the British government and were not much involved with the communist. In fact, a large portion of urban Chinese are against the communists and they supported the war against the CTs by joining the local Home Guards and police forces. This was less highlighted as the British had wanted to pull all the Malay support, which in a way is counterproductive in the long term.

[edit] WP:MilHist Assessment

A nice, long, detailed article. It has an infobox, a good number (and good organization) of sections, and a beautiful navbox at the bottom. I think it could be beneficial to merge this with Briggs Plan, and in any case, I don't think that an article merits higher than B-class if it still has these sorts of tags at the top. But the infobox is nicely detailed as well, and as near as I can tell, the vast majority of the core information essential to the subject is included here. LordAmeth 13:07, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] article name

Malayan Emergency is British-sided and POV. Name should be changed in accordance to guidelines. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 16:52, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

It's the official name. __earth ^(Talk) 03:08, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

given by who? --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:41, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

historians? I've had the luxury of experiencing Malaysian and American education system. In both systems, the event is known as Malayan Emergency. It's already an established name. Try encyclopedia britannica. Or any other major encyclopedia. Further, search on Google produces significant number of result [4]. According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (events), "If there is a particular common name for the event, it should be used even if it implies a controversial point of view." . So, this page name is already in line with Wikipedian guideline. Else, the name Glorious Revolution needs to be changed too because it's biased. But we're not in the art of rewriting history. We're only recording it. __earth ^(Talk) 14:27, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Agree totally. Whilst I am British-educated, I've never heard it called anything but the 'Malayan/Malay emergency.' I also fail to see how this is 'British-sided' - whilst 'emergency' is a somewhat silly term for a 12 year war, it happened in Malaya and was an emergency. Doubtless Maoist history books would call it 'The Great Patriotic Struggle of the Oppressed Malay Proletariat against the Filthy Imperialist Dogs,' or some such, but that's clearly ludicrous. Psidogretro 11:20, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

There were two sides in the war. One side called it the "Emergency". The other side called it something else. I've seen the term used by the MCP; I don't remember it exactly, but its something like "Malayan Liberation War". To uncritically use one side's term is to give the article a non-neutral point of view. The British designation is undoubtedly confusing, and misleading -- perhaps intentionally so. The MCP designation is probably somewhat slanted also, but, I would say, considerably less so than the British one. A state of "Emergency" is usually connected with something like bad weather , a flood, . . . . This one lasted 12 years. Two large armies, well armed, centrally organised, were going at each other. That is a war, not an emergency. "Glorious Revolution" has been established alot longer than "Malayan Emergency". Perhaps it has seniority rights that can be reasonably withheld from "Malayan Emergency". Also, "Glorious Revolution" is obviously biased. Bias is bad, but the obviousness makes it less harmful. "Malayan Emergency" is biased, but more sneakily so; someone with no prior knowledge can not tell that this is a partisan term when they encounter it. It also confuses the distinction between the legal measure, the state of emergency, and the conflict. I think there is a good case to be made for changing the article name. Chroma liberator

Read Wikipedia:Naming conventions (events). We are not in the business of rewriting history. __earth ^(Talk) 03:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This should be in the cold war reference section

This was a war won by the Brits against the communists and was another victory in the cold war should at least be noted in the article. YankeeRoman(24.75.194.50 21:54, 31 January 2007 (UTC))

Strangely it's never been treated as part of the cold war ( although obviously it's linked ) : perhaps because neither US, USSR or China were involved, and Brits tend to treat it as 'post colonial tidy up'. 145.253.108.22 12:27, 7 February 2007 (UTC)