Talk:Mali Empire
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This article starts, "The Mali Empire was . . . from the 14th to 17th centuries." Then later describes the decline and ultimate demise of the empire beginning somewhere around 1360. Also the list of names stops in the 1300's. What happened to the 200+ years leading up to the 17th century? Also, would be nice to know some details around the civil war.Mali also had good security and justice to then people. The sultan showed no mercy to anyone who is guilty of a crime. Which shows people taht they didnt want to get in trouble. also this article will tell you alot you need to know
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[edit] Unknown Mansas?
What exactly does it mean? And did the guy really ruled for almost 150 years??? Pavel Vozenilek 19:16, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
No, those are multiple unknown Mansas
Is it true that information like this was obtained from greot's or is this sientific fact? (not saying that Greot's reconstruction on events are wrong but over the senturys things can be retoled and confused and by doing this the history the storys tell changed)
[edit] Scientific Fact/Griot
In reply to "Is it true that information like this was obtained from greot's or is this sientific fact? (not saying that Greot's reconstruction on events are wrong but over the senturys things can be retoled and confused and by doing this the history the storys tell changed)"
Nearly all the info on the Mali Empire was obtained by griots, the french term for djelis (traditional Mandinka historians). You're right that over the centuries things can be changed or confused, but that occurs with written and oral documents. there's a saying, "part of writing history down is concealing it". I think the djelis can be trusted on most matters however since they performed a highly uniform function and only 4 clans or families were allowed to record the info (Kouyate, Diabate, Jobate and another I don't remember right now). Plus, the info we've gotten from djelis over the last couple of decades syncs up very well with written arab sources of the same time. So I guess it uses both literary and oral sources to put this stuff back together scientifically.--Scott Free 16:30, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] TERRITORY
[edit] 900,000 sq miles instead of 9,000 sq miles
The territory given should be 900,000 sq. miles, not 9,000.
[edit] More like 439,000 sq. miles
I hope whoever wrote the above will sign in the future. i'm not taking a jab at you. im actually glad you caught that. I added the 9,000 originally because I found it in a publication. I removed it once I realized how wrong it was. I added the new square miles by looking at the map and seeing how many nations could fit inside. I don't think Mali covered quite 900,000. More like 439,000 square miles. The nations of Guinea, Burkina Faso, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Cote d'Ivoire, Benin and Senegal all fit pretty neatly into the area portrayed on the map with room to spare. Combined, those nations have a sq milage of just under 439,400. This is an obvious assessment using the given map. Can you site a reference that gives Mali's area at 900,000 sq miles. It would be very helpful. thanks in advance and i appreciate your interest. Scott Free 18:17, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Well Done!
This Article is great, this should be at last a A-CLASS article. Caribbean1 09:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] New Format and Info
Hi everyone. As you probabaly know, I've been working on this page for a while. It's my passion and has really captured by imagination. My studies in all things related to Mali has compelled me to make some drastic changes to this article so that it better reflects current research on the part of the experts (Ki-Zerbo, Niane, Thornton, etc.) The main thing i wanted to address was the very existence of the state and how its situation changed via successive rulers. The best way to approach this is to center the article not on western connotations of "empire" but on the "kurufa" which was established by Sundjata (Mari Djata I) in 1235. There are three possible dates for the end of Sundjata's state.
1. The Empire ended after loosing control of all its last subject kingdom.
This date would be 1559, when Fouta Tooro captured Takrur from Mali
2. The Empire ended when Niani ceased to be the capital
This date would be 1545, after Mansa Mahmud III moved the capital north
3. The Empire ended once there was no single mansa controlling it (tri-partition)
This date is unknown but must've occured with the death of Mahmud IV (1600s)
4. The Empire ended once the Kurufa (federation) could no longer function
This date would be 1645 after the Bamana cut the area in half
5. The Empire ended once the Mansas loss control of Niani
This date would be 1670 after the Bamana sacked and burned the city
I opted for the 1645 date, because there is a concrete event linking the destruction of Manding unity under the banner of Sundjata. If someone has a better idea, holla at me. Till then, I think it is best we keep with 1645 until someone publishes a better alternative. I've run across about three sources putting the demise of Sundjata's creation in 1645. By the demise of Niani in 1670, that city was already close to abandoned. I figure as long as the Manden Kurufa still functioned (even under tripartion) Sundjata's creation still existed. Let me know what y'all think
Scott Free 02:33, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] GOOD WORK
I havent read it all but it looks like a respectable article.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ 14:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
- Thank you Scott Free 13:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] FANTASTIC ARTICLE!
There is a great deal more information here than when I checked about a year ago. I have questions about the empire you may be able to help with....
Your article has a great deal of information on the history, government, economy and military of the Empire of Mali, but I'm looking for some smaller scale information. Specifically, can you help me with information on the indigenous religions of the Manden people? I am a writer who would like to base historical fiction on the Mali Empire, but I find very little information in English about the religions followed by the majority of the empire's population. I can use as much as possible about the beliefs and practices of peoples from any region that comprise the Manden.
Also, I'm looking for information about how the people of different clans and different levels of society lived on a day-to-day basis... what food did they eat and how did they prepare it, what types of tools and furniture did they keep? What rites of passage did the males go through to reach manhood?
If you have reference sources in English for those sorts of questions I'd be happy to research and supply the information for inclusion in your article.
Thanks in advance!
[edit] Abu Bekr
This article says that Abu Bekr lead a military campaign in 1076, but the article linked to his name says he lived 573-634. 2:36, 27 March 2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.192.206.19 (talk) 06:35, 27 March 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Good Catch
Thnx for bringin that to my attention. I fixed the link. I don't know who linked it earlier. There are a lot of Abu Bekrs. Scott Free 15:56, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Kudos
Very well done. I've been trying to create a good Ashanti article, but haven't had enough time. This article is very well done though
[edit] What the hell!
How it go from a GA grade to B grade? The article hasn't changed accept for positively (i went thru and fixed some links and spelling) No offense to Yellowfiver, but why is he able to grade an article when he doesn't seem to have a page? By the way what are the criteria for being able to grade. I personally would grade this as a GA. Somebody please holla back at me ASAP. Scott Free 22:41, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
- hi. No I'm not grading my own article. I'm just putting back the original grade until I get some answers. Also, I'm not sure if it is really MY article, though I appreciate the compliment.Scott Free 13:29, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
