Talk:Marcel Bigeard

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Added decorations and some details of early career verified from "Pour une parcelle de gloire" which is of course biased. Facius 13:22, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Added Alistair Horne Reference - Pages 167-169 cover most of the biographical detail here --Cj tyche 19:24, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Reviewed and expanded biography, added Bernard Fall text as reference for Indochina statistics. removed clean up header. Much of the other biographic data is also from Horne, but because it was gleaned from multiple pages removed the specific page references in the book citation. Added algerian and post war information as well as bibliograpghy. Bibiliography was taken from the french version of this page.

I removed the "his destiny awaits" because it sounded too ornate and suggests a foregone event which does not sit well with a nutral(sp?) reference.

I removed the original "the massacre that never occured" and cited the casualties sustained by the french during the battle. Most of the deaths were sustained after the battle during the forced marches and captivity ( For citation see Fall, Hell in a very small place. pg 438) I cannnot leave the remark in place when the french lost at least 80% of the men they committed to the battle.

I'm going out on a limb but without being able to read a copy of bigeards intelligence officers handbook I can only infer its influence on Trinquier. It seems a bit unseemly to draw a direct link between bigeards text, trinquiers text, the US counterinsurgency doctrine, and latin american counter insurgency traing ending in repression in chile and argentina. I do think referencing the use of torture and its negative outcome on the war is sufficient.Summerlong01 03:40, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree and have posted a request for sources on this Torture thing. As far as i am aware the first public admittance by anyone senior to torture was by General Aussaresses in "Pour la France", 2001. As far as i am aware no written document had surfaced before this which admitted to teh torture, let alone supported it. Facius 23:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Added ISBN's I could confirm, gave more info on ww II escape, added information on training school set up in philipeville. returned photographs after updating license details.

As far as i am aware the trainng school was on how to fight guerillas successfully rather than intelligence per-se. At least that's the impression Bigeard gives in "Pour une parcelle de gloire". Facius 23:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

The only thing left I would like to add is a list of decorations, I keep seeing referenced that he is France's most highly decorated soldier, but the context is vague (Highest ever?, highest still alive?) regardless I'll see if can find any published information on decorations and honors received.Summerlong01 00:23, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Have added from a web site i found. Facius 23:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Is there a source for the comment that the "Agounnennda" operation was inconclusive ? 108/~300 captured or killed was a lot better than par for the period and region if i read the books correctly. His own account of the battle gives huge credit to his adversaries and also says that Bigeard's superior, Massu, credited Bigeard with having created a unit capable of rapid, light touch, well executed movement and then says that the result should be studied by all corps commanders in the northern zone of algeria and cited as an example. [Bigeard, p 298,(1975)] Facius 23:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps the term inconclusive is inappropriate. In Horne, A Savage War of Peace,pg 253-254. He wrote that "a more dispassionate observer might have questioned whether, if Bigeard's crack troops could not score a total victory on its own terms forces, there was much hope for winning more elusive engagements in a war that might be indefinitely prolonged.". Less than total victory might be more accurate. As for the Jeanne D'Arc training school I would have to agree with you. The only information I have on it is from the photographers description of the school from the ECPAD website "Située à Philippeville, l'école Jeanne d'Arc est créée par le colonel Bigeard dans le but de faire bénéficier les capitaines d'une formation concrète sur la contre guérilla. Le stage dure un mois et permet d'acquérir des connaissances tirées de l'exemple des parachutistes rompus aux opérations sur le terrain. Cette école est surnomée "l'école des capitaines". Describing the facility as a training school for teaching counter insurgency might be more accurate.Summerlong01 16:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Would Tazmaniacs like to explain why the first paragraph/intro is now dominated by references to torture ? Should his (Bigeard's) comments on this dominate an overview of his life and achievements in the way it now does ? Would that represent a balanced view ? Indeed the massive rewrite of the Algerian section suggests that Tazmaniacs might be French Speaking and have a particular interest/bias in this matter. The text seems to suggest that the political system did not approve of torture but if i read general aussaresse correctly he said that mitterand ordered 'all means' to be used and when pressed as to whether he meant all means he said yes. This does not come out as the 'torture enhanced' text now reads. Interestingly the french wikipedia does not have this information. Facius 10:53, 1 March 2007 (UTC)