Template talk:Metros in FSU

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M	This article is maintained by WikiProject Metros of the former Soviet Union.

[edit] Proposal to delete

Wake up. Did you notice that Soviet Union has been gone for 15 years already. Metros in Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan and other independent countries continue its successful development with no relation what so ever with the Soviet Union. The cities listed in the template are not tight by common history, as for example, Dnipropetrovsk metro has been opened in 1995 after the fall of the Soviet Union. Uapatriot 05:17, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with this template. Metros built in Soviet times are related and keep a lot of historic and technical legacy in common. I don't see any harm. Why delete? --Irpen 06:52, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

For example, metro in Dnipropetrovsk and Kazan are built after Soviet times. How these two are related? As of now, the template is about metro in the former USSR, not about metros built in Soviet time. But what is now the former USSR? Baltic countries are now in EU and NATO. The attempt to reunite the former USSR is offensive for new independent countries. This is what the harm is. Uapatriot 07:10, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Why is it that some paranoics see something that unites these systems as offensive? Irpen is right there are plenty of technalogical and historical ties for most of them. If you want to create a separate template on metros in Ukraine to go along with this one then fair enough, but this template stays and if you want a vote then do realise you will immediately outnumbered at a rate of 10 people--Kuban kazak 13:45, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

BTW construction of Dnepropetrovsk began in Soviet times, and designs for Kazan, Omsk, Alma-Ata, Donetsk, Krasnoyatsk, Chelyabinsk, Donetsk, Rostov-na-Donu exist since mid 1980s...-Kuban kazak 18:31, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Additions

Should we add the Kryvyi Rih Metro Tram to the template? I know it is not a metro system but we could write Kryvyi Rih (Metrotram) or smth like that. —DDima ^(talk) 21:42, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes along with Volgograd Metro tram which I shall write, but separately...I would also add the Metros that are under construction (and write their articles): Omsk, Alma-Ata, Chelyabinsk, Krasnoyarsk, Donetsk and maybe Ufa although in the latter all has frozen and abanodoned as oposed to the rest. BUt make a separate heading for those. Maybe we should retitle it rapid transit? And then add the Moscow Monorail to it as well. I am just giving different ideas really.--Kuban Cossack 22:00, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I think we should add it all and rename it just like you said. We should also add Kiev tram, which I am writing right now, and possibly all other articles of the type in the FSU, but under a seperate heading. —DDima ^(talk) 22:09, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Lets take it one at a time. Rapid transit and public transport. Trams, unless they are metro trams come under the latter. Althought in the USSR there exists the following criteria for public rail systems:

1. Normal tram (Трамвай), speaks for itself goes on the streets with autosections, tracks are allowed to be crossed by pedestrians, realtively slow speed.
2. Rapid tram (Скоростной трамвай), when there are separate walled off sections for the tram and the stations are destinct (ie станции) as opposed to stops (остановки) platform structures. Tram speed is generally faster, most of the tracks are off access.
3. Metro tram (Метротрамвай), Same, but with underground sections.
4. Metro. Speaks for itself

1,2 are publict transport, 3 and 4 are rapid transit.

Now normally as the city grows the tram is transformed into a metro in three phases:

1. First, the lines going to the outer regions of the city are transformed into a rapid tram and operation is done such that it only operates as a tram in the centre.
2. Then to avoid the traffic tunnels are bored under the centre and, in segments, the tram becomes a fully rapid transit system. (Which is why we should NOT add Kiev Tram to the template)
3. Eventually once the city peaks over a million, the metro tram is converted into a Metro (as all the tunnels and stations are pre-made to Metro standards. This is what is going to happen with Levoberezhnaya Line in Kiev, when the rapid tram section will be transformed into a Metro.

So far Volgograd only reached part two. I never been to Krivoi Rog (although I shall next time I'm off to Volhynia), but as far as I know it had no tram whatsoever so that was built as a Metrotram from the start.

Yerevan is a joke. It had a tram (maybe even a rapid tram, as these are widespread) in 1976 they started boring the metro tunnels for the conversion to a Metro tram. However national pride of Armenians convinced Brezhnev to skip this step and build a whole Metro altogether (despite lacking the million population number). However it proved too expensive, too unreliable and did not reach the needed length to fully accomodate the trasport needs before the earthquake of 88 and the breakup of the USSR. As a result well see the links at Yerevan Metro.

Now there is a big contradiction arising. How come places like Kharkov, Nizhny Novgorod, Tashkent, Novosibirsk have Metros built skipping the Metrotram and in some places not having a tram of any kind. That scheme above was planned for an ideal socialist деревня as it becomes a city over a hundred years or so. Those cities were cities inherited by the USSR from pre-USSR times. You know what I think an article Socialist Urban Transport (not just FSU, but Eastern Europe, North Korea, etc) is needed to be the base and explain all that above then we launch a wikiproject (or even a portal) on writing articles on ALL trams, trolleys, buses in ALL socialist and ex-socialist cities and towns. That way we kill two hares, have an excellent and ambitious base and avoid damaging the national pride of some of our nationally conscious colleagues. --Kuban Cossack 23:09, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, an article such as Socialist Urban Transport would be helpful and so would a portal on all the FSU rapid transit/metro articles. —DDima ^(talk) 00:14, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Athos Subway

I don't think this railway belongs here. It is by no means a metro (rapid transit), neiter a metrotram. It is more like heritage railway actually. Just being undergroud doesn't make any rail transport system automatically a metro. Kneiphof 21:13, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Metrotram is also not a metro. This template is not only for metro systems.--Dojarca 21:21, 11 February 2007 (UTC)