Talk:Microsoft FrontPage
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Contents |
[edit] Article quality
I'm as fond of FrontPage as anyone--in fact, I'm currently writing a classroom textbook about it--but I don't think the subject is well served by either the sub-Slashdot MS-bashing that was on the page before last month, or the PR text that I just removed. (I also recognize the 131.107 class B block on sight, incidentally, having once worked for its owner.)
I'd prefer that this page and the Macromedia Dreamweaver page be approximately equal to one another in terms of balance between features and criticism. But this isn't the way to go about it. Paul 17:55, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
[edit] MoS says articles should be at the most common name
Which in this case is Microsoft FrontPage--ten times more common. Wp:mos#Article_titles/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Use_common_names_of_persons_and_things/Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names) 24.18.215.132 17:56, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Criticisms/cons edit
This paragraph:
- Some web developers criticize this approach as producing HTML pages that are much larger than they should be and cause web browsers to perform poorly. In addition, some people criticize FrontPage specifically for producing code that often does not comply with W3C standards and sometimes does not display correctly in non-Microsoft web browsers. Some have even speculated that FrontPage's proprietary code intentionally interferes with the functionality of alternative browsers in an effort to pester users into using Internet Explorer, Microsoft's own browser.
Needs to be edited and sourced. I don't hold FP in particularly high regard but "some people" and "have speculated" are weasel phrases. Further, FP2003 has done a lot to be a more browser-agnostic tool.
This:
- FrontPage templates also include proprietary FrontPage themes which can be used in place of cascading style sheets. FrontPage themes can quickly give a professional look to a site, but make subsequent website management difficult for non-FrontPage tools.
I don't have a problem with it insofar as this is how it used to work, but I believe FP2003 themes are CSS-based. In any case, even if the previous themes were not "standard" (whatever that means in this context) there is nothing else to compare them to since all other commercial CMS editors pretty much functioned the same way. --klaus 05:51, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- I agree. Plus, not only do the pros for FP'03 sound like the marketing gimmicks on the box, but they far outweigh the cons. I'm kinda finding it difficult to vouch for the neutralty of this article.--The4sword 10:24, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
The problem with the pros are basic; They should compare its benefits as opposed to another WYSISWYG editor. Instead, in general, they either state the pros of a WYSISWYG editor or are vague. I suggest that section be renamed to Pros and Cons as Compared to 2/3 Other Popular WYSISWYG Editors. --65.95.120.123 01:26, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Lifesnadir
The content you added was non-encyclopedic, badly worded at best ("you can do X", "perfect for Y") and possibly POV. In addition, WP is not a how-to guide, so the "Troubleshooting" part also does not belong in the article.
Take a look at your revision and feel free to re-add your content following WP guidelines. Thanks. -- «klaus»
[edit] To Klaus
Possibly you could re-word your criticism so that it would be less attacking to a new person who is learning the ropes? Critisms need not be worded in such a way that causes embarrassment to new persons. Like other newbies who may not understand all the rules yet, I was simply not aware that trouble-shooting is not an acceptable part of topics. My intention was to inform about commonly encountered HTML Error Codes when using this specific program. I do not see how my little additions to pros and cons were not acceptable, however. And I apologize that my writing style was unacceptable. I'll look at POV. Thank you. User:Lifesnadir
- My comment wasn't intended to be an attack at all - you might be new to WP but unless I go look at your contribution history it's difficult to tell. In any case, I apologize if I came across as wanting to "put you down" in any way. For the whole 'what Wikipedia is not' series, here's the policy. Your contributions must be 'neutral' in the sense that they don't 'lead' the reader to one side or the other of a discussion. For example, you included something like some people say in your edit - these are considered weasel words (though 'weasel' is an unfortunate term to say the least). Anyway, my apologies again and I hope you can continue to contribute. -- «klaus»
[edit] FrontPage Express
I found a version of frontpage on the net called frontpage express. Would it be possible to add some info on it? Thanks. RaviC
- FrontPage Express is a simplified version of FrontPage, much like Outlook Express is to Outlook. I just found a page on Microsoft's site that confirms it's a Windows 98 component (it seems to be absent in the Second Edition): http://www.microsoft.com/windows98/usingwindows/internet/Articles/003Mar/FPExpress.asp. If anybody does add information on it, it will most likely have it's own article.
- (edit) Also, why is "FrontPage Express" ("Frontpage Express", actually) redirecting to this page when they're two separate products? 68.125.68.247 03:16, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] FrontPage Express
Frontpage Express is essentially a free version of Frontpage bundled with Internet Explorer 4, it offers little features or funcionality to create websites and is only good for adding some text and images and a few tables, that's all. Frontpage Express has a sneaky way of removing a doctype on a webpage that was inserted in and because doctypes are important and are located at the very top of a web page above the <html> tag, Frontpage express just removes them, I don't recommend this tool to anyone, it's useless —The preceding unsigned comment was added by StevenT1 (talk • contribs) 10:00, 31 December 2006 (UTC).
[edit] NPOV?
With a few minor exceptions this article looks to me like it breaks NPOV all over the place.
"making it possible for novices to easily create web pages and sites" should probably be "making it possible for novices to create web pages and sites",
"One of the notable features of FrontPage is its built in support for automated web templates. The main distinction between these templates and HTML templates generated by other products is that FrontPage templates include an automatic navigation system that creates animated buttons for pages that have been added by the user. It also creates an advanced multi-level navigation system on the fly using the buttons and the structure of the web site." sounds like marketing text; as does "providing server administrators with a tool to deliver rich web and intranet content in a package as easy to use as Microsoft Word."
I also noticed pros far outweigh cons.
- Yes it does seem to be written as a marketting tool for FP...
- One of the main criticisms of FP must be the amount of garbage and MS specific code it put in the source. Also the the extensions only work with servers that support scripting, which rules out most of the domestic ISPs. Since there are today excellent alternatives (NVU for small sites, Dreamweaver for the professionals) along with good non-WYSIWYG ones perhaps it is good that MS have discontinued it... Dsergeant 10:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
--C
[edit] Added advertisement tag
Hey.
I added the advertisement tag to the "Pros and Cons" section.
KyleBrooks 16:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Why I aded Cleanup-spam
Hi.
I believe this article has spam, as defined by the people who have discussed POV above, etc.
I feel that the spam should be removed.
GA
KyleBrooks 17:15, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
- I am not a great fan of Front Page myself but the fact remains that it is a widely used and respected html editor. It may not be totally NPOV but it is hard to see how it is positively advertising the product. If so then virtually all other software articles could be considered the same. By no stretch of the imagination can it be seen as spam. Also the spam tag you have put in now dominates the opening screen. I will resist taking it out myself but will be surprised if it is still there tomorrow. Dsergeant 21:15, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
