Talk:Mills Mess
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I think Rubenstein's Revenge should either be removed from this page (and probably made into it's own article) or if not, Burke's Barrage should be added. Rubenstein's Revenge is not really a variant of Mills Mess. Instead, it's a simple extension of Burke's Barrage. --Lovelace 02:07, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
- I don't even think that Burke's Barrage should be added, let alone Rubenstein's Revenge. Both of these tricks are different enough to be considered a separate trick. The only thing they really share with Mills Mess is a crossing of the arms. I vote to create separate articles for these tricks, and to remove them from this article. --BennyD 01:28, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
- I agree. Moved it to Rubenstein's Revenge. Larspedia 17:52, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
According to the external link from this page, it should be "Mills Mess" without an apostrophe.
The logic behind this is that the creator was called Mills. However this means that the correct spelling should be Mills' mess, with the apostraphe going after the s to indicate the mess belongs to Mills.
- I believe it's "the Mills mess", where the name is used as an adjective (like the Washington monument) rather than as a posessive noun. —Rory ☺ 11:33, Sep 7, 2004 (UTC)
but the washington monument is a monument to washington, not one belonging to washington, the Lincoln memorial is one of washington's monuments. Surely putting his name at the front was intended to make it a possessive, ive never met Mills, but am sure he wanted it to be his mess rather than just a word that happens to be the same as his name. Nez
- Steve Mills himself stated that the correct name for the trick is "the Mills Mess". Like "the Newton method", or "the Clinton presidency", the name is used in adjectival form. —Rory ☺ 14:12, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)
If you use 'The Newton Method', you are using Newton's method. If you read about 'the Clinton presidency' you're reading about Clinton's presidency. If you perform 'the mills mess' you're performing mills' mess. Without a 'the' it has to be mills' mess. see also Archimedes' screw Pythagoras' Theorem
- Read the article. It begins "The Mills Mess..." That's correct. I fail to see the problem with that grammar. Consider a Dell computer. It's not "Dell's computer". In this case it's not "Mills' Mess", it's a Mills Mess, or the Mills Mess, or even my Mills Mess. That is how the term is used, that is how Mills himself used it, it's completely grammatically sound (as long as an article (the, a, my) is used). Where's the problem? —Rory ☺ 18:02, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)
I'm a juggler (sorry I don't have an account yet). Everywhere I've seen "Mills Mess", it has always been "Mills Mess", no apostrophe. Part of the grammatical confusion is that the added apostrophe conflicts with the 30 or so years of verbal tradition. The historical pronunciation of "Milz Mess" then becomes "Milzes Mess" which is verbally incorrect. If Mr. Hess owns a house, it is pronounced "Mr. Hessez house" not "Mr. Hess house". In the history of its pronunciation, "Mills Mess" has always been pronounced as "Milz Mess". Moreover the following are also correct in the verbal tradition.
- I tried Mills Mess last night. (grammatically wrong, verbally right)
- Bill, your Mills Mess looks real ugly. (grammatically and socially wrong, verbally right)
- I taught four jugglers the Mills Mess pattern last month. (correct)
So yes, it should probably be in fact called "Mills' Mess", but that would break a 30+ year verbal tradition among jugglers.
Has anyone seen a 5-ball version of Rubinstein's Revenge? I suspect not, though this article implies that it's been done...
I'm surprised there was no mention of Eric's Extension in the list of variations. It is a well-known variation, so I added it myself. --BennyD 01:28, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
