Talk:Misirlou

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So far as I know the word 'Misirlou' is Turkish. In Ottoman Turkish it was Misirlu and now in modern Turkish it is called Misirli. Certainly it does mean 'Egyptian'. It has nothing to do with the Greek tongue.

In fact, it is an Arabic word, مصر (as the article indicates). That's what the Egyptians call themselves. Both the Turkish words and the Greek word derive from that. The Hebrew word for Egypt sounds very similar too, it is not a coincidence.

In any case, even if the song was called Baklava, since it was originally written in the Greek language and had a Greek lyrics, the name should first be spelled in Greek (with pointers to any relevant word derivation if needed).

Regards, Sysin 22:45, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Just one point, the word 'Misr' is an Arabic one, and the Turkish counterpart 'Misir' of course derives from that word. But the word 'Misirlu' or 'Misirli' is a Turkish word made with Turkish suffixes. So it differs from Arabic in this case, i.e. there is no word in Arabic like 'Misirlu'. And the Egyptians call themselves 'Misri' but not 'Misirlu'. I never denied that the origin of the song is Greek, but the word they used to name the song was taken from Turkish. So the right way to write the etymology of the word would be :

Misirlou (Greek: Μισιρλού, "Egyptian Girl"; from Turkish: Misirli, "Egyptian"; from Arabic مصر, Miṣr, "Egypt")

Best Wishes, Burak...

I don't wanna turn it into a tug of war. Only one thing I request from you. Please find me only one language in the world except Turkish that comprises the word 'Misirlu' or 'Misirli' which means 'Egyptian' significantly. Then I will accept that this is only a similarity rather than borrowing.

Regards, Burak...

"Misiri" "Misirlis" (masc.) and "Misirlou" (fem) can all be found in a Greek dictionary, so there are at least two languages that use the word. Even if there was only one possible origin for the word, (which for reasons explained about, there isn't), so what? Take a look at Revolution (song). Does it read "Revolution (from Middle English revolucioun, from Old French revolution, from Late Latin revolti, revoltin-, from Latin revoltus, past participle of revolvere, to turn over)". It doesn't. It is not relevant. This is an article about the song, not a dictionary entry for the word "Misirlou"; we only need a translation from the original language for context. In this case it also help to explain the connection between "Misr" and "Egypt" (since most English-speakers may not be aware of it), but to go into a detailed analysis of the word is off topic. (Regards, Sysin

Of course there is only one possible origin for this word. A linguist who specialized in eastern languages will verify that, you can be sure.

And certainly there are two tongues having these words in their vocabulary. This is the reason of our debate. But I think you missed the point. Only one of them can explain the word significantly.

As for Revolution (song), if you or another friend hadn't given the etymology of 'Misirlu' just like in Revolution (song), I wouldn't even have thought about it. But once you gave the etymology of it and skipped the intermediary language, I felt the necessity of correcting it, that's all...

So, my intention is not to prolong this discussion of no avail. Even though the correction is not satisfactory, I will not persist therein.

Tschüss, Burak

Contents 1 Not a folk song 2 Nuftali Zvi Margolies Abulafia 3 Stoma / Mouth 4 Busted link? 5 Sysin's latest edit 6 Misirlou / Misirli 7 Latest translation change 8 Boyd Rice?

[edit] Not a folk song

Sorry, this is not a Moroccan, Egyptian, Armenian (typo, bnd), Lebanese or Persian folk son (I've heard that all). Its a melody so haunting and so familiar that it is hard to believe that it wasn't composed before the beginning of time. But it wasn't. Sysin 12:24, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Dear anonymous, please respond here before making further edits.

1) Μισιρλού literally means "Egyptian female", girl or woman ("man"=Μισιρλής; "from Egypt"=απ'το Μισίρι). It can be translated as "Woman from Egypt" if one wants to be too verbose, but to state that "girl" or "woman" is implied is just plain wrong. Replacing the correct translation with an incorrect one twice in a row, is not a sign of good intent.

2) When was the first Armenian recording of this "folk" song? 1930? 1940? 1950? What were the original lyrics? What documents do you have that record them? The song was a major hit by Patrinos in the late 1920s and again by Tsitsanis in the 1930s, and there are plenty of recordings and score sheets to document that. If this was a popular Armenian song from the 1600s, wouldn't there be some recordings predating Patrinos? Sysin 17:04, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi again,

The word 'Misirlis' is certainly a loan word from Turkish just like the words 'Karamanlis' or 'Daglis' are. Sorry, but the Greeks gained thousands of Turkish words all through those hundreds of years under Tourkokratia. And this is fair normal..

Furthermore, I thought that we came to a compromise on the last description of the etymology. But now I see that you changed it back to its original, i.e. you removed the part "similar to Turkish Misirli" again. Even though I did not agree to this kind of explanation I did not make any changes at all just to show my good intent. And I think it's my right to want you to revert it to the one I mentioned.

Best wishes, Burak 22:16, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

When it was vandalized (changed with patently incorrect info, namely the "From egypt" translation), I restored it to an older text. I'll put back the Turkish language reference since you insist, even though I continue to believe that it is irrelevant. Sysin 18:20, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I checked history and saw the previous versions for the moment. Anyhow, thank you for the change Sysin...

Regards, Burak 20:15, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nuftali Zvi Margolies Abulafia

Good find, I heard the recording, it is in fact Misirlu, closer to the Rubanis melody than to Patrinos' or Dale's. Can anyone translate the lyrics? Any more information about the origin/year?

Regards, m

[edit] Stoma / Mouth

Sometimes, literal translation is not the best - Greeks say "φιλί στο στόμα" meaning a kiss on the lips, but when the english speakers say "kiss on the mouth" they mean a French kiss, which does not seem the right translation for this song.

This reminds me of the e-joke that's going around with expressions such as "He does the duck", "I made them sea" and "To say the figs figs and the tub tub". Sysin 14:16, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

---

Yeah, I guess you're right. I'm just too pedantic... so I fixed up the accents on your Greek :) It's just not Greek without them haha.

Here are two of my favourite direct translations:

• Θα σου αλλάξω τα φώτα == I'll change your lights
• Θα φας ξύλο == You'll eat wood

By the way are you Greek or just know the language? User:Maggas 3:30am, 21/1/06

[edit] Busted link?

I've been trying to follow the link at the bottom to the usaf band recording of the song for a few days now, and it seems to be consistantly broken. Perhaps it should be removed? or is this just me? 66.124.191.55 07:46, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

The www.usafband.com site is down. This is presumably a temporary error (unless they've gone out of business, which I doubt). Let's wait a few days. sys < in 08:54, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sysin's latest edit

Sysin: I totally agree with you about Αραπιά (though maybe we even want to translate it as "Arabia" or "Araby"). As for κλέψω, while "I'll steal you..." doesn't quite work, "I'll steal you away" probably would, and would better reflect the meaning of the Greek verb. What do you think? --Iustinus 17:05, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

In the context of a relationship, 'κλέβω' can best be translated as "elope with" (for the male; the female 'κλέβεται' - an old-fashioned assumption of gender-roles I guess). There is consent implied. There is no such connotation in English for 'steal' - it is more synonymous to abduction than to elopement. Regarding Αραπιά, I think Greeks (particularly of that era) understood it to encompass all of Northern Africa, whereas a reader used to modern terminology may understand "Arabia" to be limited to the Arabian Peninsula. "Arab Land" is a more literal and somewhat more poetic translation. Cheers, sys < in 07:58, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, to me "I'll steal you away..." can still be used in that context.

As for "Arabia", you definitely have a point: the thought had occured to me that many might take that to mean the Arab Peninsula, which doesn't fit here. But "Araby" just might work, and it's definitely poetic. Eh, I suppose "Arab land" is clearer. --Iustinus 08:05, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Heh, I don't speak Greek but I agree that "to steal away" can have the same meaning as "elope" if you are talking to someone familiar. Dan Carkner 13:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misirlou / Misirli

Dear anonymous, as before: The two words are related (from the same Arabic root) but they are not the same, nor do they mean the same. Misirli is a gender-neutral word that could refer to any person or object from Egypt. Misirlou refers specifically to a Egyptian female person, and even more specifically to a member of the country's predominant Arab/Muslim population (members of the large Greek/Christian community at the time would never be referred to as 'Misirlides' but as 'Egyptiotes') sys < in 12:43, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Either its masculine or feminine form, it won't make any difference. The word stems from Turkish. But debating here won't give any results. Instead I will get a Greek etymological dictionary and end the problem permanently. This seems the best solution.

Regards.

--91.93.64.18 13:15, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Latest translation change

Dear anonymous, thanks for the updates in the translation, they were a great improvement. I did make two reverts: Crazy->wild (crazy could be taken to mean 'insane'); plus I deleted 'inside' which, although used in Greek, sounds redundant in English.sys < in 19:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Boyd Rice?

Does anyone have any documentation on this thing about Dick Dale's version being included in Pulp Fiction on Boyd Rice's suggestion? The only thing I've been able to find is from the faq on Rice's site, the entirety of which is every bit as self-aggrandizing as everything else the man says (example: "Q: Is it true that RE/Search Publications haven't paid Boyd Rice any royalties in over fifteen years, for his work on Incredibly Strange Films? A: Yes."). Is there, for instance, any word from Tarantino about it? MrBook 15:02, 4 March 2007 (UTC)