Talk:Mission San Carlos Borromeo de Carmelo
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It appears that there is some confusion regarding the use and meaning of the term Basilica and how it should apply to certain Spanish settlements of the California Mission System. Basilica in its canonical sense refers specifically to a worship space ("a church of very important historical significance") which, in the case of the missions, only applies to one particular element of the outpost. Missions consisted of workshops, kitchens, dormitories, farmlands, etc. in addition to the chapel and ancillary spaces. More specifically:
- San Diego de Alcalá refers to itself on its website as both a "Mission" and a "Basilica."
- San Carlos Borroméo de Carmelo specifically uses the term only in reference to one of its worship spaces, and it makes a clear distinction between the "Basilica" and the "Blessed Sacrament Chapel."
- San Francisco de Asís (Mission Dolores) does not use the term on its website, and the "Basilica" there specifically consists of an adjacent structure that was not in existence until relatively recently.
- San Juan Capistrano maintains separate websites for the Mission and the adjacent parish church and only uses the term on the parish website. As with San Francisco de Asís, the "Basilica" there specifically consists of an adjacent structure that was not in existence until relatively recently. Though both sites are owned by the Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles, they are legally separate entities.
According to The Catholic Encyclopedia, "…the word mission is confined to the work of bringing pagans into the Church" which is clearly not the function of these modern churches. The facilities in question were established as temporary outposts, and the four listed above received the "Basilica" designation only after they had served their original purpose and had been "resurrected" by the Catholic Church many years later—each of the articles states as much.
These are all negative POV statements.
--Lordkinbote 07:56, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Thanks for posting this careful analysis of the matter. I had looked into it superficially and was perplexed. You make it clear. I hope you can integrate this research into the article. Cheers, -Willmcw 08:40, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)
- Wow! I ran this past my California History professor and he says you are right on. Keep up the good work!--Pkuchinski 02:38, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Confusion with Monterey church
There is a church (actually a cathedral) in Monterey with a similar name and vaguely similar appearance. That church was founded in 1770, then the mission was moved to this one in Carmel in 1771, while the original continued to operate as a chapel for the governor--see the Official Websites of each. I'm removing the link to the incorrect photo (of the original mission, which became known as the Royal Presidio Chapel) and re-linking that to the Monterey church where it belongs. I'll correct the historical details here when I get around to it (but I won't be upset if someone else jumps in!).--BillFlis 14:55, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
- I think the presence of the George Vancouver sketch here is more of this confusion. The article says the mission moved to Carmel the year after it was founded, which would have been 1771, while this 1792-dated sketch says "Monterrey" [sic].--BillFlis 22:56, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
