Talk:Neo-classical metal

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What about adding Luca Turilli (Rhapsody)? --D135-1r43 1 July 2005 16:16 (UTC)

Most neo-classical pickers aren't classically trained. This statement is a self-contradiction: the electric guitar has only existed as we know it today for a little more than 50 years; clearly no classical music was ever written for an electric guitar, so how could there be any such thing as a "classically trained" electric guitarist? In fact, the vast majority of well known shredders (Yngwie, Van Halen) are self taught, or Jazz-trained (Petrucci). Not classically trained! I'm changing this; if anyone disagrees let me know.

I think you´re forgeting Randy Rhoads. He was classically trained, in fact many shredders are classically trained (Luca Turilli is another example, although I would not classify him as a shredder). The electric guitar can subsitute for an accoustic guitar in (almost) any occasion (the opposite isn´t true), so an electric guitarrist may be classically trained in an electric guitar. Nikolo Kotzev is also classically trained (he was a violonist in the first place). The Great Kat too is classically trained. In fact how can you be sure about the formation of those artists? Petrucci graduated from the Berklee College of Music where he certainly was classically trained to some extent (or to the "full" extent :-). I think there´s no point denying that some (perhaps many) New-classical guitarrists have classical training. Loudenvier 18:16, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

And I also forgot that classical training is not tied to an instrument. Both of Angra´s guitarrists (Kiko Loureiro and Rafael Bittencour) have graduations on classical music composition. Loudenvier 18:20, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

As I have stated below, there is Classical Music specifically written for the electric guitar (if I'm not wrong, even Karlheinz Stockhausen has pieces of the genre). You are wrong when you say that the electric guitar can almost always replace the acoustic guitar. The classical guitar technique of playing has nothing to do with the electric guitar technique. For instance, in the electric guitar you use a pick, while in the acoustic classical guitar you are required to use your fingernails. This limits very much the capacity of the electrical guitar to play counterpunctual pieces written for or adapted to the classical acoustic guitar. In the acoustic guitar, you may use your five fingers at the same time- that is, you have 5 picks simultaneously- what allows you to play base and solo in the same instrument (what is only possible through tapping in the electric guitar), or counterpoint.

We have to decided what is classical training actually. My best regards, --200.158.156.160 20:37, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

There has been "classical music" written for electric guitar. I don't remember the name of the (classical music) magazine I've been reading about this. Keep in mind that the music may not be classical in the sense that it resembles music by Mozart or Haydn.

Becker. - Mikinator

You are right. Modernist composer Steve Reich has composed, for example, a piece entitled Electric Counterpoint, which is for the electrical guitar. Anyway, I'm preparing some additions to this arcticle, including a part clarifying some of the controversies on the subject, particularly regarding the influences in the style and its theoretical basis in music. --200.158.156.160 20:37, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

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What about Symphony X and Michael Romeo?? Altough SX plays progressive metal there are enough neo-classical influences, especially because of Michael Romeo who even claims that the neo-classical style of Malmsteen made a big impact on him. 213.157.1.88 19:54, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Influence doesnt make them part of this genre of music. Ley Shade 21:45, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Still, a quick listen to almost any Symphony X song would reveal that Neoclassical metal is one of the most prevalent styles in their songs. -Achates 14:14, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Jason Becker of Cacophony fame could be also added.

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What about Uli Jon Roth? --cheungie 05:52, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Visual Kei or Neo-classical Metal?

I noticed that many Visual Kei bands are featured in here, Neo-classical metal. So the question is: is there any difference between VK and NCM, or is VK a subgenre of NCM? I am saying this because many VK artist have all the requirement to denote themselves as NCM. 154.5.47.4 01:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

VK is not in the same league as NCM. --202.86.204.197 07:22, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I was also wondering why Malice Mizer is in the list. --202.86.204.197 07:22, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Better definiton

I rewrote the section on "Neoclassicism", as it was Copied and Pasted from Neoclassicism (music). In the meantime, someone should try to give a more concise definition of Neo-Classical Metal, as right now it is a bit vague. --Crabbyass 03:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

It was copied because its a correlated movement. It could have been reworded to better fit the context of heavy metal. The current definition lacks too much IMHO. Regards Loudenvier 20:26, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I was actually looking at an older version of this article (I've messed up with the page history...). The current Definition sounds good to me! Sorry for the misunderstanding! Loudenvier 20:31, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I changed the definition of neoclassicism in this article because it was C&P'd...but that section should only be there to differentiate between neo-classical metal and neoclaccism. If you ask me, the actual definition of neo-classical metal needs some serious work. (I'd work on it, but I only "stumbled" upon this page, and don't really know much about it, though I used to listen to Yngwie many moons ago...) --Crabbyass 01:13, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree, the term neoclassical is a huge misnomer especially with this branch of guitar stylized music, there is not anything neoclassical about it all.::

[edit] Weird

DragonForce is not a neo-classical metal band. I see the nothing neo-classical in their music. I think dragonforce is the Shred metal or extreme power metal. Shredding is not only reson to call metal band to neo-classical.

I agree, the same could be said of Steve Vai, Michael Angelo and many more. --203.112.80.138 03:48, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

You're right. Classical passages and influence are a must to consider a player a neo-classical metal. Malmsteen is clearly neo-classical, but he is also a shredder. The Great Kat is also a shredder neo-classical player (as I also think Michael Angelo Batio is) because of the great classical influencies on their songs. Steve Vai, to me, is not neo-classical, but could be considered a shredder, although with greater musical scope. Well, that's my two cents. A list of neo-classical players should never be allowed on this article. All these lists are hopelessly POV and should be deleted. Loudenvier 20:52, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, any effort to trim down or even delete the list is futile, as the deleted artists/bands will always reapprear within months. --cheungie 09:00, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

No, they won't. That was not the story on the Virtuoso article and will not be the story here. If needed administrator intervention will be demanded. If the list got deleted it will get deleted every single time it was brought back again. Did you give up doing the right thing so easily like that? :-) Wikipedia is a colaborative effort, every single cell (one) doing it's small share to create one of the biggest, dynamic piece of human knowledge to date! Regards Loudenvier 15:36, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

If such measure is to be taken, you will have my full support! --cheungie 10:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I've taken the liberty of removing bands and artists that I know don't play neo-classical metal. I want to know though, why is shred on this page? I'll remove that as well, seeing this is the neo-classical metal page, not shred page... --Dayn 06:29, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I've removed:

• Joe Satriani (what the hell?)
• Steve Vai
• Herman Li (power metal...)
• Stratovarius (power metal; true, Timo Tolkki shreds and has neo-classical elements, which is my reasoning for leaving him in there, while removing Stratovarius)
• Nightwish (symphonic metal)
• DragonForce (power metal...)
• Dream Theater (progressive metal)
• Edguy (power metal)
• Rhapsody of Fire

And there's undoubtedly many more, I'll need help. Keeping in mind shred should be left off this article, seeing it's about neo-classical metal. One does not equal the other. --Dayn 06:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Aaanyway, I've cut down the list more, removing things that have little to do with neo-classical metal. I'm going to remove the links that do not have a page; seeing this is an encyclopaedia, people would want information; having a long list with obscure people who mightn't even have a wikipage is redundant. --Dayn 08:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)