Talk:Neoteny
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Thank you for your informing article. All I miss is people. Not one person is mentioned, allthough there were quite a few people involved in the process of calling something neoteny, doing the necessary research and changing its concept over time.
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[edit] Some cleanup
I've removed some of the dodgy grammer and unreferenced (and slightly odd) claims in the Evolution section, which is otherwise excellent. From the middle paragraph, I've removed:
"But in some, neoteny remains; and that is a quest to learn and get better and find out things."
referring to human adults - this is misusing the word "neoteny" to mean "youthfulness", and apart from being unreferenced speculation hence does not belong in this discussion. I've cleaned up the rest of that paragraph to include the information on chimps, while removing the claim that they "lose their neoteny" - changing to "begins adulthood". I've also removed the link to Autism, as there is no evidence that the two subjects are related. --163.1.176.68 19:00, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
I changed the first sentence from "Neoteny describes a process by which paedomorphism is achieved..." to "Neoteny describes a process by which the adults of a species retain traits previously seen only in juveniles (paedomorphism)..." to make it accessible to people (like myself) who do no know what Neoteny or Paedomorphism is.
[edit] Pronunciation?
How does one actually pronounce "neoteny"? grendel|khan 19:55, 2005 Mar 28 (UTC)
- My professors pronounced it like "knee-ought-ten-knee" (I know those aren't official phoenetic symbols). Then again, I'm Canadian. --Waterspyder 22:06, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
No, its good!
[edit] please do not confuse neoteny and progenesis
In the neoteny entry there are many references to a similar process, progenesis. A short description:
- neoteny: the retaining of early characters (usually embryonic) in the adult.
- progenesis: the earlier acquisition of sexual organs and gonads which can lead to sexually mature larval stages such as the ones mentioned in the neoteny entry.
Whoever is responsible for the neoteny entry, please revise your sources.
[edit] giant panda
"However, a more famous example is the Giant Panda, an animal that retains its baby like cuteness into adulthood."
- Erh!?!?!?!?!? It may LOOK cute to a human, but as an adult it is "as mean-minded as the grisliest of bears" Anthony Appleyard 17:39, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
- Adult giant pandas do retain their childlook looks, and are thus considered to be neotenized. Cuteness or mean-mindedness are matters of opinion. --Ryz05 02:54, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Major change announcement
After reviewing material from when I studied this in University, what is described in this article is a little closer to paedomorphosis than it is to neoteny. Neoteny is a particular mechanism of paedomorphosis in which juvenile physical or somatic characteristics are slowed or delayed. Progenesis is another mechanism by which the organism's development is halted before achieving ancestral maturity. I will eb making some changes, and will be moving some of the material over to paedomorphosis as appropriate. --Waterspyder 22:27, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
I ended up moving material over to progenesis and will be doing more research. I thought the paedomorphosis of Axolotl was a progenetic, not neotenic. Other changes will follow for clarity. --Waterspyder 23:10, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
- If you are going to get serious, I suggest using numbered references. --JWSchmidt 23:31, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
- The book "Developmental Biology of the Axolotl" refers to the animal and its relatives as neotenic. It does undergo a cryptic metamorphosis in which the lungs become functional. A neotenic salamander may also be larger than a non-neotenic adult when it reaches maturity. So it's a failure to transform completely. 05:49, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Chordates
On 7 March 2006, 24.61.98.230 wrote:
- It is also theorized that the phylum Chordata first originated as a result of paedomorphism occuring in a highly primitive animal such as a sponge or coral.
This comment must be substantiated. I am removing it; the user in question may feel free to add it back with an appropriate citation. --Peter Farago 20:41, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
- However, in modern evolutionary biology it is generally accepted that the important evolutionary transition from invertebrates to vertebrates was the result of an instance of neoteny.
I am familiar with this hypothesis, and with the recent revision of the chordate lineage that lends it some credibility, however it would still seem to be far from "generally accepted". --74.102.135.71 01:02, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
