Talk:Neumark

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Space Cadet calls this original research and removed it: [1] That is all common knowledge and all can be found on internet. Same goes for Coats of Arms of Wroclaw, the Silesian Black Eagle origin. The lack of knowledge or unwillingness to look for info or just plain destructiveness is too great. I gotto go. Labbas 23:42 8 October 2006

Contents 1 History 1.1 Pre-Migration Period 1.2 Middle Ages 2 Proposal 3 Early medieval history 4 Requested move 4.1 Survey 4.2 Discussion

[edit] History

[edit] Pre-Migration Period

Before the Migration Period the region later called Neumark was inhabited by a number of Germanic tribes including the Burgundiones and Rugii, and according to Tacitus, Nicolas Cusa, Hartmann Schedel and many more map makers part of Magna Germania. Afterwards West Slavic tribes invaded the region from their own settling area east of present Minsk, after parts of the local Germanic tribes had themselves moved west-ward and invaded parts of the Roman Empire.

1493 Map of Magna Germania including Brandenburg Neumark Marcha Nova by Hartmann Schedel, also by Muenzer, based on 1491 map by Nicolaus of Cusa (Nicolas de Cusa).

[edit] Middle Ages

Since establishment of the first Polish realm, the dukes of the Polans, Mieszko I and Boleslaw I subsequently conquered a number of territories around their core area (see external link on the bottom). By beginning of the 13th century the region of the later Neumark was thinly populated by Slavs and had been intermittendly under the sovereignty of Polish dukes as the Lubusz Land since the end of the 10th century. In the 1170's Pomerania was inherited by Brandenburg, 1181 Pomerania came directly under the emperor and in 1231 Emperor Frederick II gave Pomerania as lien to Brandenburg. A number of Low Germanspeaking people began settling north and south of the Warta and the Noteć upon the initiative of Pomeranian and Polish lords (see East Colonization). Members of the Knights Templar and Knights Hospitaller established monasteries, in whose surroundings settlements began to develop. To fortify the borderland dukes built castles in the north, around which settlements also grew.

The Ascanian margraves of Brandenburg, starting with Albert the Bear aspired to reestablish dominion of the eastern part of Magna Germany, which was fragile since the destructions of the Brandenburg and Havelberg bishoprics in the 10th century. By 1242 they had gained a foothold east of the Oder river and in 1252 Brandenburg and the Archbishopric of Magdeburg purchased the Lubusz Land. In 1253 they founded Frankfurt an der Oder as a river crossing Put the part , removed by Space Cadet, here, plus additional history(Pomerania since 1181 directly under emperor, 1231 given as lien by emperor Frederick II to Brandenburg)

Labbas 20:27 9 October 2006

[edit] Proposal

Well, one of the most important parts to making Wikipedia a trustworthy encyclopedia is the inclusion of sourced and verifiable information. Even if something might seem like common knowledge to you, it is usually a good idea to provide sources for information added. This is especially true for controversial topics, as many articles connected with German and Polish history tend to be at times.

As there has been contention about this article recently, I propose that it be reverted to the last version by J. 'mach' wust. The disputed information should then be discussed properly at this talk page until a mutually agreeable version is reached. Olessi 01:40, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

How about a bit deeper revert, back to Olessi 20:23, 7 June 2006 ? --Lysy^talk 04:35, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

That's fine as well. Olessi 22:06, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I'd certainly prefer this to revert warring, but others involved would have to agree as well of course. --Lysy^talk 03:48, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Labbas, Space Cadet, would this be acceptable? Olessi 17:34, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Not exactly. I would like to see double naming. Space Cadet 00:28, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

And if double naming is instituted, would you be willing to discuss the disputed information as I inquired about before? Olessi 05:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

J mach wust, Smith 2006, Elonka, SmackBot all edited several times since 7 June 2006. They have not been asked. I personally do not think it is a good idea to remove several months of editing. Labbas 11 October 2006

Technical edits like the ones by Elonka or SmackBot were minor and can be easily redone. --Lysy^talk 04:44, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Their edits are practically all copyediting that I can quickly restore. Controversial editing on this article only began in October. The information added since then has not been properly sourced, was not discussed on the talk page, and has led to reverting. Olessi 21:25, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Early medieval history

Much of the dispute in October seems to have been about the population of the region in the 10th century and used this Polish government link as reference. From my understanding of the text, it does not mention the Lubusz/Neumark territory, nor does it specify the people who lived there. It does mention the unification of Polish tribes, but it does not say that Polans lived in Lubusz Land at the time or say what Slavic tribe lived there instead. The page, which seems to be a survey of Polish history for the unfamiliar as opposed to a scholarly work, does not specify how the region came under Polish control. I have edited the article to mention that the region came under Polish control during the rule of the dukes. Olessi 23:01, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move