Talk:Nick Cave

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Contents 1 Why? 2 Separate Pages 3 Polymath? 3.1 Kylie? 4 Cave's children 5 Biography 6 Religious Affiliation

[edit] Why?

Why the removal of the sentence in this edit? [1] (Unless it's been moved to a different article?) Chuq 06:59, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Commercially successful? Early Nick Cave albums? Really? Thats not my impression. Critically successful, sure, but commercially? GWO 08:24, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I just checked my link, and it was a (cur) link.. Additional edits had been made since my post, which changed the nature of my link. What I was actually referring to was this edit [2], but the additional edits seem to have restored the actual information, which (I thought) was deleted -- Chuq 11:59, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

There is nothing about genre on this whole page (except the category "goth"). Could someone who knows his music say something more specific than that he has a "band"? Norvell 21:36, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Separate Pages

I'm not sure if it's right, but it seems to make a little more sense to split the article into the Nick Cave person and the Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds band, which is (while nominally his 'solo' career) still a different thing entirely from himself. I can't recall a precedent on Wikipedia, but I'm sure there is one. Does anyone agree on the split? Tolo 23:15, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

I was thinking this myself. The Birthday Party (Cave's previous band) have their own page. I suppose the Bad Seeds as a band is arguably a product of Cave's, and I suppose you wouldnt seperate Bob Dylan's or Tom Wait's biography from their musical careers. If the pages are kept together, it needs to be cleaned up with better organisation. Robinoke 19:07, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

I've found a precedent! Which may or may not mean anything. Huey Lewis has a seperate page to Huey Lewis & the News, which is basically the same situation (I attest). So yes. Perhaps worthwhile to split; I agree, this page is quite poorly organised. I'll give a bit of thought to organisation and so on in case a split isn't argued with. Tolo 15:01, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

OK. You make a good point. I'm not going to contest the split. If I can find some time in the near future, I'll help with it, but its exam season at the moment. We need to be sure to fix any redirects like The Bad Seeds and Bad Seed aswell. Robinoke 09:17, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

I wouldn't be too bothered about precedents, this isn't a court or anything, just make the best descision for the readers of the article. In this case I am in favour of splitting the page.--Commander Keane 13:50, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

In response to the original question: I'm sorry I didn't see this page before, but I went and made a page for Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds a little bit ago, and I'm currently in the process of tracking down redirects and fixing them, and changing links all around the place (which is how I got here...). But anyway, there already was a page called "bad seeds" which referred to the band, but it had very little on it and parts of it were factually wrong. Strange thing is that all the redirects from pages called something-or-other related to the band didn't direct there, but instead just went to "Nick Cave"... ah well --Qirex 16:41, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Good job; I was afraid to start it in case I did anything exceedingly stupid. Which leads me to question: is it worth keeping the discography and the line-up on his main page? I don't think it is, personally. Also, is the line-up better here or on the main Bad Seeds page? This one seems, at least, a little more aesthetically pleasing. Tolo 07:41, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

First, I apologise for not coming back and answering your questions earlier, Tolo. I was relatively inexperienced with some aspects of Wikipedia at the time, like the watch list (I was manually bookmarking in my browser), and didn't realise there were new comments here. Anyway, it seems someone has already merged across the line-up info, which is good, but the discography remains. I think it should probably be removed, too, and replaced with a line directing viewers to see the nick cave and the bad seeds page. Thoughts? --Qirex 04:02, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I came here intending to suggest doing exactly that, so seeing as others seem to be thinking along the same lines I went ahead and moved all the Bad Seeds' releases over to that page. Eldang 22:05, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Polymath?

Hey Painbearer, I note that you've added the category Polymath. I am a big fan of Nick, but would not regard him as a polymath. He is primarily a singer and songwriter. He has written one novel and one screenplay. His collections of poetry predominantly contain song lyrics. He does not excel as an actor, and does not regard himself as an actor. One may as well give undue prominence to the small public examples of his visual art, his celebrity or his cult status, as to his acting. I think the Polymath tag is (at this time) unjustified. Even if he writes more novels and screenplays, I still wouldn't regard him as a Polymath. Cheers. Design 01:51, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I noticed it too. Polymath? Sure, he's an actor, a singer, and a writer, so I guess he fits the criteria for a polymath or Renaissance Man. Usually when people think polymath they think about people who explore all fields of academics and occupations, people who do many things, like Leonardo daVinci and Nick Cave. I can list a bunch of people of the 20th & 21st century who are also actor-singer-writers and who consider themselves polymaths. Currently it seems like the Polymath category needs to be populated with more people from modern times (which would be a good project, and I'm willing to help out on). User:Arual

I'm going have to agree with the above comments, even though I love Nick Cave and believe he is a multitalented and intelligent man. But just... not multitalented quite like that, I suppose. Folkor 01:32, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Polymath? Wouldn't that more often be used by someone who excels in more than just the arts? So da Vinci is a polymath because he was both a great artist and an inventor. Cave is a great artist, but I'm not aware of any engineering or scientific feats. So genius, maybe, polymath no. Average Earthman 13:51, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

• To labour the point: Wikipedia gives the following definition: "A polymath...is a person who excels in multiple fields, particularly in both arts and sciences." Nick's 'mutliple' fields are all within the arts. First question: Does the writing of songs, poems, one and novel and one screenplay qualify as 'multiple' fields? In this context I would say "no".

Second question: Does he excel? I would say he excels as a singer/performer, and as a songwriter; that he does not excel as a poet or actor. I have no view on his novel and his screenplay. For these reasons I don't think he qualifies as a polymath. Design 11:31, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, there hasn't been much said in favour of its inclusion, so I'm deleting the category. If someone wants to add it in future, please cite a source for it.--Marysunshine 03:24, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kylie?

Sorry to pick on you Painbearer, but can you point out a source for the supposed "romance" with Kylie. As far as I have read Nick was in a relationship with PJ Harvey at the time he was flirting on camera with Kylie. Friends yes, lovers?...can you cite sources? Design 02:04, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I think there were some speculations as Kylie is known for her romances, but I can't tell any resources. In fact it's your choice if you want to remove it. I think that I won't be able to find any head-lines as of now, 10 years after their famous duet. Painbearer 10:28, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, did a quick Google on Kylie sites & gossip sites such as[3], and none list Nick as one of Kylie's "relationships". I'll delete the reference. Design 11:39, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cave's children

On 3 March 2006 an anonymous contributor added a reference to another two children, (making six in total: Luke, Jethro, Arthur, Earl, +2). Is this hearsay? Original research? It should be removed unless a source reference can be provided. Design 12:20, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Biography

I reorganized the bio material after starting to add a paragraph about Susie Bick and discovering that she was already mentioned. Also clarified a few statements based on articles cited. --Marysunshine 20:00, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Religious Affiliation

Does anyone have any hard evidence pointing to Cave's exact religious afilliation? The article says that he was raised Anglican, but elements of Christian Mysticism, as well as the song "Brompton Oratory" suggest he might have converted at some point to Roman Catholicism. Brompton Oratory is a large RC church in London, and the song explicity details the protagonist taking Eucharist at the church, which would be unlikely - and certainly frowned upon - if he hadn't joined the RC church. Likewise, I think it's unlikely Cave would not understand the fundamental differences between Anglican communion and the Roman Sacrament: he's a reasonably accomplished theologian.Cravenmonket 19:16, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe he is a non-denominational Christian? Here's a quote from a Mojo magazine interview published January 2005.

Mojo: Do you believe in God now?

Cave: I do, yeah. Although I've never been an atheist, there are periods when I struggled with the whole thing. As someone who uses words, you need to able to justify your belief with language, I'd have arguments and the atheist always won because he'd go back to logic. Belief in God is illogical, it's absurd. There's no debate, I feel it intuitively, it comes from the heart, a magical place. But I still I fluctuate from day to day. Sometimes I feel very close to the notion of God, other times I don't. I used to see that as a failure. Now I see it as a strength, especially compared to the more fanatical notions of what God is. I think doubt is an essential part of belief.

--Design 23:11, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

That's certainly an interesting quote, and I'm very pleased that you posted it, but it doesn't bring us much closer to identifying with religious affiliation. As a protestant, Cave needn't associate at all with any particular denomination, and one couldn't blame him for that at all. As a Catholic, however, he would still be entitled to doubts and personal struggles, and these would in no way reduce his affiliation with the Catholic church. I think, often, the term "non-denominational" really denotes a Christian who has been fully dissatisfied with every protestant church group, but has not encountered or explored Catholicism. I'm trying to remember which gospel it was that Cave wrote the foreword to in a recent scholarly evaluation (not that it would necessarily present any answer). It seems to me that Cave's general malaise and struggles with Christianity stem from established assertions of the nature of God and Christ, most often put forth and made visible by low-church protestant Christian groups, or pounded into the dirt with scandals. His experiences of God are certainly pan-denominational, but his specific inclusion of Brompton Oratory in a major album really make it hard to ignore or discount a Roman Catholic bent.Cravenmonket 02:37, 29 November 2006 (UTC)