Talk:No Doubt

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	No Doubt has been listed as a good article under the good-article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a review.
Article Milestones Date Process Result January 21, 2007 Good article nominee Listed January 28, 2007 Peer review Reviewed Current Status: Good article

The following users are actively contributing on this topic and may be able to help with questions about verification and sources: ShadowHalo (talk • contribs • email)

The whole reputation section is very poorly written, and seems to speak for the whole fan community. I actually disagree with all comments within, but have refrained from deleting it. Someone please advise! -- RussellC

Why do you delete "Their songs are in English"? Every artcile about some artist should state where are they, who are they, and what language they speak. -- Taku 00:56 Jan 11, 2003 (UTC)

Agreed. Though if we say "they are from the USA", it's safe to assume they sing in English. -- Tarquin 10:40 Jan 11, 2003 (UTC)

If we say, they are from the USA, it is good enough to assume about their language. -- Taku 17:20 Jan 11, 2003 (UTC)

Why not create a seperate artical for the awards? I was thinking of doing this for the tons of trivia on Gwen's page... It's simply too much info to be slapped into the artical, and it makes it look more like a grocery list than an artical suitable for the Wikipedia.

[edit] ALBUMS SALES

From Ask Billboard:

Tragic Kingdom - 8,000,000

Return of Saturn - 1,600,000

Rock Steady - 2,800,000

The Singles 1992-2003 - 2,200,000

http://www.billboard.com/bb/ask/index.jsp

[edit] Awards for Appearances

Is it really appropreate to list these? They are Gwen's, not the whole bands, and I feel that it is really un-need to list HER awards on this page; let her stuff stay on her own artical. If no one can justify them being on here, I will remove them. Thx.

[edit] Members

I see the latest revision to the article says that Gabrial McNair and Stephen Bradley are members of No Doubt's touring band. Do you think there's any justification for including them as regular band members, seeing as they have recorded on every No Doubt album since Tragic Kingdom in 1995, and No Doubt's official website even refers to 'our very own Gabrial McNair' in an article about Oslo? Terrafire 18:41, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

They aren't how shall I put it part - part of the band. They aren't on the official No Doubt band page. But they help out a lot. They're supporting band members. :) I think they should have a mention for their contribution to the band but not as regular band members. Missemmat 21:09, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

On the current page, it says that Eric Stefani left the band before recording Tragic Kingdom. This is not true. His keyboards are on the album, he is credited, and he is in all of the band photos in the CD packaging. I believe he left the band when they started getting hugely famous following the release of Tragic Kingdom.

[edit] Genre

How should No Doubt be classified in the intro? Here's how I would think No Doubt's albums would be classified:

• No Doubt: ska and pop with some New Wave
• The Beacon Street Collection: ska and pop/rock
• Tragic Kingdom: ska, pop, and rock
• Return of Saturn: rock with New Wave and some pop
• Rock Steady: dancehall and ragga with pop/rock and some ska
• Everything In Time: varied because it was a compilation album

No Doubt also did "Oi to the World" (punk rock with ska influence), "Monkey Man" with Toots & the Maytals (reggae and ska), "It's My Life" (pop/rock), and "DJ's" (reggae and ska).

It seems to me that the best way to classify No Doubt would be to introduce it as either ska/pop/rock or ska-punk and point out its influences in reggae and new wave. — ShadowHalo 03:31, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Rock is pretty straightforward for the intro. Specific subgenres can be elaborated on later. Typing "ska/pop/rock" just looks messy, is potentially confusing to readers, and is slightly inaccurate. No Doubt is part of the Third wave ska movement, and draws influence from 2 Tone ska (particularly Madness); unlike the original ska, these are classified as rock genres, mainly because they rely on influence from punk rock. WesleyDodds 03:50, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I do see what you mean about ska/pop/rock appearing messy, though I think rock is a tad too broad and doesn't carry enough meaning. I took a look at the pages for some other third-wave bands, and they were all listed as ska punk, ska-core, or third wave ska. So how about introducing No Doubt as ska punk (one phrase without any slash) and then mentioning its influence from pop, reggae, and new wave? — ShadowHalo 7:36, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

When first introducing a band in an article's lead section, the genre description should be as broad as possible to give those unfamiliar with music genres a frame of reference. For example, if you're looking up the Sex Pistols, introducing them as punk rock is fine, because they are classified simply as that one genre of rock. Same thing with introducing Iron Maiden as heavy metal. However, a band like The Cure fits into a number of genres/subgenres, so it's best to just introduce them as rock. I think No Doubt is a comparable case to The Cure. WesleyDodds 10:21, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Ack, sorry about that last post. I think I was dozing off; anyway, I meant to say third wave ska instead of ska punk since calling it a third wave ska band categorizes the band and its influence on ska revival rather than its music so much since third wave ska ranges from swing to pop to punk rock and everything in between. — ShadowHalo 03:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

The timeline of Eric's departure is confusing. The way it's written, it seems like he left the band before they began recording Tragic Kingdom, which is incorrect, because he wrote most of the lyrics for that album. Didn't he leave the band between completion of the album and its release?

There is also very little mention of the problems associated with recording Tragic Kingdom, which almost led the band to break up on many occasions and which lasted much longer than any of the members wanted.

[edit] Upcoming Album

Does anyone have a source for either Gwen's upcoming solo album (if it is going to be released) or No Doubt's upcoming album? The dates in this article regarding the albums are inconsistent. — ShadowHalo 07:48, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Opening

I think the opening to this page is quite weak.

fix it then SOADLuver 02:36, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Awards

That awards section has been annoying me for quite some time and it needs to die (by which I mean I'd like to organize it). Would it be appropriate to move each award to the article on that song/album and then organize the remaining awards on this page? —ShadowHalo 08:42, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I moved the awards regarding songs and albums to the individual pages. If someone objects, feel free to revert so we can discuss the best way to organize the stuff. —ShadowHalo 12:01, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

This article needs to be blocked from editing. Someone who doesn't like No Doubt is vandalizing it.HorseApples 03:08, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup Intro

I tried to condense the introduction to this article, but it was fully reverted. Mine might have been flawed, but as it stands it gets too needlessly specific about certain things that would be better left to the 'history' section. A couple of paragraphs summing up the band, their claim to fame, and their status is what's needed, and whats leftover can be folded into the rest of the article. --LeCorrector 06:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

To clarify, I didn't fully revert it. I added the part about diamond certification as well as the band's founding into the old lead. Considering that "the relative weight given to points in the lead should reflect the relative weight given to each in the remainder of the article" (see WP:LEAD), a description of the band's history seems appropriate in the lead. Also, the lead is supposed to duplicate information in the article, so rather than "folding over" information from the lead to the article, it should be the other way around. —ShadowHalo 08:13, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I removed the tag for lead length. Not just is the lead three paragraphs, which is completely normal for articles of this size, but it's currently very well-written, as it encompasses what the article is about. -- Kicking222 13:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good Article status

I have reviewed this article and decided that it is worthy of Good Article status. The article addresses the band's activities and provides a compelling view of the band. Well done to all of you who have worked on getting the article up to the present good standard. Perhaps after the close of the peer review, somebody could nominate this for featured article status. It certainly isn't far off that now. Wikiwoohoo 22:18, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grunge & Third-Wave Ska

From just reading the start I noticed two things. 1) I know they didn't do well due to the popularity of grunge at the time in the early 90s, but isn't the article talking about 1986? I don't think grunge was mainstream then, but then I'm no expert. Beyond Nirvana and Hole I don't care, lol. 2) Third-Wave Ska... I knew what that was, but I bet most people don't. It might be better if you use a word that people understand straight away without clicking on the link, becuase all my friends and my mom (who are no Doubt fans, but not as big as me) were like, 'WHAT???'. They haven't even heard of ska, so they were majorly confused. I know that term is more correct,but still. Otherwise, the article is looking pretty great.80.43.26.174 16:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

As far as the part about the popularity of grunge, that comes after the part where it states they released their debut album in '92. It doesn't mention anything about grunge until then. ShadowHalo 16:28, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, you were talking about the lead. I've reworded it; thanks for pointing that out. ShadowHalo 16:38, 19 February 2007 (UTC)