Talk:North Omaha, Nebraska

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North Omaha, Nebraska has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

It is requested that a photograph or photographs be included in this article to improve its quality, if possible. Wikipedians in Nebraska may be able to help!

This article is part of WikiProject Nebraska, a WikiProject related to the U.S. state of Nebraska.

Yes, where is North Omaha, Nebraska? Why is there a separate article? There is not now, nor has there ever been, a place named North Omaha, Nebraska. (In contrast, there actually WAS a town called South Omaha, Nebraska, but it has since been annexed.) This article would lead me to believe there is a separate suburb by this name, when that is not the case. - Unsigned comment

Sounds like a mad observer. Feel free to read any of the articles about North Omaha and then comment on its non-existence. And sign your posts, please. - Freechild 03:08, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Contents 1 WHERE in the world is North Omaha, Nebraska? 2 Editing suggestions? 3 Recent Additions/Edits 4 NPOV/Accuracy Status 5 Progressive, Definition of, 6 Article Accuracy 7 Vandalism accusations 8 Comments After Jan. 2, 2007 References 9 Is East Omaha part of North Omaha? 10 Photo Request

[edit] WHERE in the world is North Omaha, Nebraska?

An anonymous IP has been editing this article lately, and has deleted the zip code 68104 from the demographics table. This radically alters the demographic makeup of the area, which the editor accomodated for by recalculating the statistics.

The dilemma is that although 68104, which is primarily Benson, does not actively associate itself with N.O., it is actively associated with the area via the local media. Other communities in North Omaha distinguish themselves this way include Dundee, Florence, East Omaha, the Gold Coast area (Cathedral neighborhood), Creighton University, and the Raven Oaks area.

History shows that the historical identification of North Omaha revolves around its racial composition, and I think that's where the anonymous editor was coming from. However, the media actively portrays North Omaha as anything east of 72nd, and north of Dodge. That's a lot of territory with a lot of white folks. I'm beginning to wonder if there needs to be a separate article to emphasize the African American history of Omaha.

Here's what's up for consideration. Make any additions or deletions:

• Benson
• Dundee
• Florence
• East Omaha
• Gold Coast
• Creighton University
• Raven Oaks area.

- Freechild 21:13, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

To me the true North Omaha is just in fact North East Omaha. It goes from 16th St in the east to 30th St in the west, and starts at around Cuming St in the south and extends as far north as Redick Ave. Dolph72 07:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

However, your contention about "true" North Omaha has to be supported by citations. The area you describe in terms of being from 16th to 30th, then north to Kountze Park, was formerly called "Near North Omaha. I'll be writing an article on that soon. The areas between Near North Omaha and the Minne Lusa neighborhood have their own distinct names as well, including Saratoga and Miller Park. Luckily for North Omaha the mainstream media does not define historic community boundaries - only modern ones. - Freechild 13:51, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

If you are only considering modern community boundries then of course you must include the new designation NoDo (North Downtown) which consists of 293 acres on 80 city blocks according to the Greater Omaha Economic Development Partnership. Dolph72 20:29, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip. I am really only concerned with historical designations; however, if this can be cited it should be added as well. It should also go on the Neighborhoods in Omaha, Nebraska article. - Freechild 20:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Another community that may be of interest would be the Bemis Park Community. It was established in 1889 and has some wonderful architecture. I have some pictures I can upload if it would be of interest Dolph72 17:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Editing suggestions?

Is the length of this article an issue? - Freechild 04:15, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent Additions/Edits

Great additions/edits Freechild & Americasroof! This site is really beginning to take on a solid form. Equinox137, I appreciate your insights as well and look forward to your additions. Even though we may have differing views on some aspects of this article, I respect your input. Moreover, I do recognize that this article does not belong to a single person and therefore, subsequent corrections and additions are to be/should be expected.

I believe that we - the collective of authors who choose to contribute to a given article -- by virtue of our unique perspectives, provide a check and balance system. This ensures that accuracy is maintained and the point of view is indeed objective. With that said, I know that we can find common ground. Last, Equinox137 I hope you had a great Christmas and New Year's - and got some rest ;). Take care, all. Prometheusfire 22:06, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Prometheus, I did. The article looks great - far beyond anything I ever expected. I made a few minor changes, in particular to the statement "In the late 18th century near North Omaha, closer to the downtown core, was home to many working class, middle class, and upper class WASP and Jewish families." given that no one was in the Omaha area in the late 18th century. I also think that the section on "Racism" can be worked on a little by expanding the facts of the 1919 Race Riot, but there's no rush to do that. On a side note, whoever reworked this article did a beautiful job of it. Equinox137 07:11, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your acknowledgement, Equinox137. Reworking this article was a labor of love, and I am glad to have contributed. - Freechild 23:38, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV/Accuracy Status

Are we going to discuss this article or let it stay in NPOV hell forever? Equinox137 06:44, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Equinox137, Sorry for not responding for so long. Again, thank you for making an effort to work together. Regarding the use of the word progressive -- I think that I fleshed it out pretty well below. Also, as I explained on your talk page, I understand that some people may have a particular conception of the word "progressive", but I think those people need to widen their scope to get beyond just the political reference. Again, the term "Urban America" is an emerging description of the culture formally just associated with the "African-Americans. This descriptor depicts the essential "flavor" of the African-American experience, without limiting it to the bounds of race. Moreover, this term has been used for quite sometime -- and by individuals and institutions outside of the African-American community. Regarding politics/Ernie Chambers etc. - sounds interesting -- what did you have in mind? Prometheusfire 13:07, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Welcome back. I completely understand....after all, we have to have real jobs, right???LOL.

Anyways, to buisness. Here's the issue with "progressive". The majority of the readership of Wikipedia defines progressive in the political sense (leftist or liberal), and as authors, we really have to gear it toward what the reader understands and defines (i.e. we have to provide what the customer wants). If the goal is for Wikipedia to be a reputable source of information, then we can't really tell the reader what they need to do. Personally, I think "progressive" is a loaded term for liberals to hide who they really are, but I've wasted far too much time arguing over that issue.

But from what I'm gathering, you'd like to have information included on the positive development in North Omaha, so the article doesn't make it look like it's Beruit or something. I can't blame you. Although North O has by far the highest crime rate in both Nebraska and Iowa, there have been efforts to improve the community. To solve that issue, a section needs to be written on progress that North O has made to make itself a better community.

At the same time, it also needs to be balanced by the facts of the crime that does happen there. OPD's busiest sectors are there and there's no way we can't include that information in the article.

You didn't use "urban america" you used "urban center". When I first read that, my immediate thought was "heart of the city" - which it's not either geograhpically or otherwise. Then I remembered that the term is usually used to define an 'urban center' of a nation or a region: Berlin to Germany, Kiev to the Ukraine, etc. If you'd like to get something in about the African-American community, again it would probably fit in in the body of the article, maybe in the same section concerning community progress or development. (Maybe there's a title for you - "Community Development." It's completely inaccurate to say it's a "diverse" community though...you and I both know it.

Politics - That would also be a legitmate section, especially given that North O has continously put Chambers in the unicam since 1970. This is an area where "progressive" would probably fit, although personally I think the term is BS. I won't mess with it if it were used though. Over the next few days, I'll make some gradual revisions to outline what I have in mind. I'm gonna get a real life and take Christmas off :) Let me know what you think when you see them. Equinox137 09:45, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

You really do have to get rid of:

and is considered the urban center and one of Omaha's most progressive communities.

That statement is loaded and has no citation. I've written a couple articles to this neighborhood (it incidentally is a "neighborhood" and not a community) My articles are Mormon Bridge (Omaha) and Malcolm X House Site. Whenever I see such an unsourced reference I equate the phrase as being politically correct for a neighborhood filled with failed inner city initiatives. The history of the neighborhood is very interesting and Malcolm X carries it into world class attention. Let the history do the talking and don't try to PC it. Americasroof 15:59, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

With the recent additions of citations to this article I would like to remove the NPOV tag. Freechild 18:11, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Progressive, Definition of,

1. Moving forward; advancing. 2. Proceeding in steps; continuing steadily by increments: progressive change. 3. Promoting or favoring progress toward better conditions or new policies, ideas, or methods:a progressive politician; progressive business leadership.

Despite the fact that there are some unfortunate happenings in North Omaha, there has been an increased and concerted effort to revitalize and advance the conditions of North Omaha. These efforts are coming from both inside the community and from those external to North Omaha. The focus has varied in scope -- from improving the aesthetics, to the promoting the culture; from generating new business to fostering great social responsiveness. All of the measures taken in North Omaha have been measured, incremental and forward moving. In a word...progressive. As such, it behooves the contributors to the North Omaha article not to be one-dimensional in their approach by just focusing things like "crime rate" or "race".

Prometheusfire 03:23, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

Ok. We're starting to get on the right track. Here's the problem. You might think North Omaha is progressive. You might want that... However, there are plenty of people in Omaha, especially residents of North Omaha that disagree with you. Therefore that is not an NPOV statement. There's no problem detailing those efforts and measures, which is why I never removed them. Besides that, I never focused on just the crime rate or race, however you can't bury the facts either. Equinox137 03:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

In your last revision, you stated that "We had a compromise that we would leave the editing alone until we have discussed this...Badgadani (sp), can you also comply with that as well? Thanks in advance." Badgadani was getting to the same point that I was, that "progressive" used in that context usually means "liberal" or "leftist." Now we can probably agree that North Omaha is one of the more liberal communities in the Omaha metro. Why not add a section about politics, Ernie Chambers, etc? Equinox137 15:45, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article Accuracy

Who says North Omaha is "one of Omaha's most progressive communities"? ...and what does "the urban center" even mean? I'd love to see a reliable source cited on this one! I know something about North Omaha, and Omaha's current revitalization, and I must say, these claims are news to me!  :-) I would definitely agree that the Northside has a rich and diverse culture. But as far as progress, there's a lot more to North Omaha than the area around Creighton. It'll take a lot more than decentralized public housing and a new computer lab for the Washington library to make it one of Omaha's "most progressive" communities-- if such a thing even could really be measured objectively.

How is it diverse if it's primarily African-American? Equinox137 08:36, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

By the way, I would not consider North Omaha to be a "neighborhood," but rather a suburb. In fact, North Omaha comprises a number of neighborhoods, or subdivisions.

Suburb? Are you kidding? Do you live there? North Omaha is as inner city as it gets. Equinox137 08:36, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, I-680, runs along the Northern edge of North Omaha, not I-480.

One more thing. Why do we say that it boasts a rich and diverse culture "though" it's predominately African American? I see no absolutely incompatibility between these two facts! Personally, I rather wouldn't pay homage to racial segregation by citing the fact. Nonetheless, it is a fact, and that's what Wikipedia is for. --Jack 06:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Follow up comment: I guess that my use of suburb does not conform to the popular definition. However, the sense conveyed by the word neighborhood suggests something much closer to the subdivision level. This is inadequate, because, as stated earlier, North Omaha comprises a number of neighborhoods and subdivisions. Precinct seems to fit well, but carries a connotation of official recognition. Districts, on the other hand, are often unofficial. While again semewhat ambiguous, district seems most appropriate here. --Jack 06:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism accusations

For all of you anons accusing me of vandalism, you need to look up Wikipedia's policy on vandalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vandalism) and you will find I am committing no such thing. I have provided all the sources consisent with policy. Furthermore, if you actually read through Wikipedia's original research policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research), NPOV policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view), verifibility policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability) and weasel word policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words), you will discover you are violating all four of those policies.

Anyone from Omaha will laugh their asses off when they read what you want to keep there. Omaha is de facto segregated via Dodge Street and has been for over 90 years, so claiming North Omaha has a "diverse" culture is wrong - (accuracy & verifibility policy). An "urban center" is a central city in a nation, for example, Yaounder is an urban center of the nation of Cameroon. The term does not apply within cities themselves (accuracy policy). And "progressive community"? That is purely POV that would be debated by anyone living in Omaha, included a lot of residents of North Omaha - (NPOV & weasel word policy). Have I spelled it out clear enough?Equinox137 02:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comments After Jan. 2, 2007 References

This article is probably the best referenced article of any on Omaha. I punched up the lead to get to the notable stuff about the neighborhood and try to avoid the citation requests. You can revert back if you wish. It is definitely a neighborhood. It is not a community. It is within the legal city limits of Omaha. The community sent me scurrying to check all this out as I thought it was independent from reading how it originally. I am writing from NYC. There are neighborhoods here (e.g., Harlem, et al) that have individual streets with individual characters. The little subdivision are merely components of the neighborhood. Again, thanks for the effort to really improve the article. It's even more interesting than when I first saw it! Americasroof 04:42, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

• With some general clean-up and some more illustrations, this would be a good candidate for a Featured Article. My compliments to everyone who has worked on this great portrait of North Omaha. ObtuseAngle 03:28, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is East Omaha part of North Omaha?

New topic at the East Omaha talk page: Is East Omaha part of North Omaha? It extended from a discussion about the recent firebombing in that neighborhood. - Freechild 14:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Photo Request

What in particular would you like to have photographs of? I live in the area and could try to any type of photos requested. Dolph72 20:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

It would be great to get photos of the landmarks. Here's some other ideas:

• The new plaza next to the Jewell Bdlg
• A shot of what's left of the old storefronts along 24th, around Lake and whatnot.
• I'm especially interested in what's left of the intersection of 24th and Ames Ave and Saratoga Elementary, and any other relics leftover from the old Saratoga.
• The redevelopment area on top of where the Logan Fontenelle Projects were.
• Kountze Park, as it stands today.
• You could take some shots of anything in the NO Info Box.

Thanks for putting this out there - that's generous. - Freechild 20:55, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Where and how should I upload the pictures I have? I have a few buildings as well as several info plaques from the State of Nebraska Dolph72 21:32, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Images should tell you everything you need to know. - Freechild 21:42, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I have begun the upload process...see if there is anything you may want to use Dolph72 21:58, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Um, where do I look? - Freechild 22:05, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I kinda was hoping you knew...I uploaded them into Wikipedia Commons but they arent linked to anything. And when I click on ANYTHING on the Commons site its giving me a MySQL error. The easiest way to look at them in the short term is to start with this http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:P3160005.JPG and change the last numbers. Hopefully I can organize them into at least the main Omaha page soon. Dolph72 22:20, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Wow. That picture alone primes me to write that article... I just finished Great Plains Black Museum (thanks User:Smmurphy), including a section on the building itself. It would be great to add a shot of that, especially considering its condition. I'll work on learning the picture posting later. - Freechild 01:49, 18 March 2007 (UTC)