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Contents 1 Comments 1.1 He is a minor 1.2 Born 1.3 Vandalism 1.4 Laz? 1.5 Ultra-nationalist 1.6 Nationalist? Ultra-nationalist?

[edit] Comments

[edit] He is a minor

He will probably not be sentenced for his actions due to the fact that he is still a minor. Please add this to the article.

Vito Genovese 22:26, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Because he is a minor probably he will get a reduced sentence, if he is convicted, but of course he will be sentenced to some prison term. I also believe Turkish Law allows him to be tried as an adult even though he is still a minor because of the seriousness of his crime and because he is a considerably older minor. 75.110.69.120 06:02, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

No it doesn't. Turkish law is not as weird as the Floridan et al law where "children can be tried as adults" - which is an oxymoron to begin with, and simply illogical: if he is a kid, he is not an adult; if he is an adult, he is not a kid. "Seriousness of the crime" BS that is used in some US states to sentence 12 year olds to life without parole doesn't exist in Turkey. There are different age categories in Turkey: 0-12, 12-16, 16-18, 18+: there are different sentences that can be given to them, with varying methods of trials and without exceptions. It is not loony land where simply because a crime is publicized the criminal gets the shaft. The law is clear, the statutes are clear, he will get the punishment in accordance with his status in society (ie age etc) and the corresponding legal statutes. Baristarim 06:27, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, buddy. But "TURKISH LAW" is what I'd call a "oxymoron". Stay clean. 201.19.165.41 14:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

O-12: no punishment whatever the crime, but taken into state children's services custody if need be until 18.

12-16: practically no punishment, but state custody and possible internment at children's pyschiatric wards. Prison sentence possible, but only in designated juvenile detention centers + the max sentence that can be given is 10 years (I believe)

16-18: exactly mid-way betwen adult and child. Prison sentence possible, but the max is much lower than for adults (which is 35, except for two crimes (treason in its formal definition, and leading an armed rebellion against the state) - "life without parole" doesn't exist in TR except those two) - I think it is 15, but since the new penal code came out fairly recently, I still confuse the numbers sometimes.

18+: the whole nine yards quoi :)

I think that he will get the max 15-20 and be out in 10-12. Just my first impression of the case. It is extremely exceptional for prisoners to serve their full time. Baristarim 06:37, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I am no lawyer but I am failrly sure that in Turkey it is not automatic that a 17 year old goes to the Juvenile Court for his crimes, although of course being tried as an adult has a different meaning in Turkish Law than it does in USA. There are reports that the District attorney's office declined to specify whether he will be tried in a juvenile court on the grounds that the investigation is still going on. In all likelihood, I agree that if he is convicted he will get a much reduced sentence.75.110.69.120 20:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Not quite: he is tried in a normal court, but with specific articles and sentences that vary from those that would be used in the trial of an adult: that's why the maximum a 16-18 year old can get is lower than for an adult. There is no such thing as "try him as an adult" in Turkish law, or other European countries - there can be no such "request" legally. He will be tried according to the Penal Code, and those articles that apply to his crime and age will be used. He is not in the 12-16 category, but by law his punishments cannot be as much as he would get if he were 18+ - but he will be tried in a normal court with a state appointed custodian as assistance since he cannot stand trial alone because he is not 18+. There are no legal exceptions to this, whoever the accused. Baristarim 20:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

In fact, I was pretty close: He can only get 18-24 years max because he falls into 16-18 group, and will serve most probably 16 years behind bars [1] (in Turkish). The court will still be a normal court though. My earlier point was that there are no exceptions: there are four age categories and different articles apply to them. That's all.Baristarim 16:32, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I just heard that he was 17 as well. Interesting.. Let's see how the news develops... Baristarim 22:43, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

It is possible for him to be tried as an adult. In Turkey, some people (especially in rural areas) register identities of their born children some time later. That's why a person can be biologically be e.g 18 years old but in formality just 11etc. Court can ask for biological age verification. Forensic institute can estimate biological age by some bone testing. If forensics say that he is over 18, he will be tried as an adult.

The guy lives in Trabzon. That isn't rural at all. -- WiiVolve 13:57, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

"Try him as an adult" is some lame American terminology. He will be tried according to the statutes in the penal code that correspond to his age and crime. I agree, Trabzon is not a mountain village. Forensic bone testing? I don't think so. I have never heard in my time as a jurist forensic tests to be done on the bones of a living person to estimate his age (estimates don't mean anything: they have to be 99.9 percent) so that he can be tried "as an adult". Again, there is no such concept in Turkish or European law. I explained this above. Baristarim 15:23, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't exactly know that it is scientific or not, but there is a method of biological age verification via "bones", at least in Turkey. It is accepted and used by Turkish courts. Do a google search for "mahkeme kemik yaşı" (literally "court age bone"), you'll see many links including Anayasa Mahkemesi (Constitutional Court of Turkey, highest court in Turkish system) decisions, that will explain everything. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.255.50.69 (talk) 08:37, 24 January 2007 (UTC).

I largely agree except to point out a few things. While he can't be tried as an adult, obviously if he was an adult his trial and sentence would come under that of an adult. I'm not Turkish but I do have a limited biological background and I agree the forensic testing sounds highly dubious to me. You can come up with estimates of his age, but it is rather unlikely it would be accurate enough to be consider by the court. If there is extremely strong evidence he is older then his birth certificate or whatever indicates, then I presume this would be accepted but it is unlikely there would be such a thing. 203.109.240.93 13:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Born

Barış, does the article say he was born in Trabzon or from Trabzon? Khoikhoi 23:13, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. So does this mean that in the Hrant Dink article, the sentence "Ogün Samast, 17 years old from Trabzon by his father, who alerted the authorities. 10 people have been taken into custody (including the father) in Trabzon and will be transported to İstanbul on Sunday morning" should be changed as well? Khoikhoi 23:30, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

No worries, it was a good point. I will check into that entry as well. Apparently some other people have also been taken into custody but it is not too clear. The Turkish media is referring to them as being "Trabzonites" - however it is not clear if they were born there. I will scan some refs.. Baristarim 23:42, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Istanbul governor just said that 6 people were also arrested (not his father however) and were en route to Istanbul, along with a gun that was found on Ogun - however it is live on TV but there is no written ref as of now so when the ref comes up it should be included. Baristarim 23:46, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

member of the nizamı alem ülkü ocağı, any source for that? Fad (ix) 17:12, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Here's a good source of info about Samast, it says that he wasn't part of that organization. [2] -- Davo88 21:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

I reverted a piece of midless vandalism by an unsigned user, who inserted the word 'moose' into the copy in a spectacular display of childishness. That should be ok now. Darkmind1970 15:44, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Laz?

Is he Laz? Badagnani 06:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

He might be, but I saw an article in one newspaper that the name Samast is an old Turkic name. Of course, this means nothing when Kurds can have the last name Öztürk or Süryani are called Turan. But assumıng these Samasts didn't just adopt a famous name in the 1930s, their family roots apparently go back to the earliest Oğuz clans which settled in Anatolia. Xemxi 07:34, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. There was a very good article about this in a Turkish newspaper where they explained what "Samast" comes from. It is apparently the name of a Oghuz Turkic tribe.. Baristarim 19:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

We must read the same newspaper! I meant to mention earlier that the best reason for assuming that Ogün is not Laz is simply because he doesn't look like one. Laz have a much fairer complexions than he does. Xemxi 20:52, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

his roots go to Ogus Turks is bull shit. he is nothing to do with lazians. his surname is an Armenian name. does not matter anyway, no boddy knows who his father is. he is a son of a whore, father is unknown. he is a bastard

[edit] Ultra-nationalist

Is this a new trendy term :) Why isn't this being called a fascist? Towsonu2003 07:22, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

To my information, Fascism is not only about pure nationalism, far far deeper. This website itself has tons of info about it. There so many people who self-declared fascists (or declared by others) who are simply brutes and nationalists. Btw, I'm also a Wikipedian but I'm too lazy to log on. --85.100.239.162 15:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

What the lazy Wikipedian (;)) may have meant to say was that a being labeled a nationialist just means the person labeled has faith/belief in the superiority of his country/national ties over all others. The term Ultra-nationalist might indicate the nationalist has taken it to radical extremes. A facist, however, actually means something a lot more definitive that merely nationalism and the simple act of assassinating someone does not meet the criteria of being labeled a facist. --LeyteWolfer 11:04, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nationalist? Ultra-nationalist?

Wow! How about "Brave Freedom Fighter?" I guess it doesn't matter. Democratic information. Gotta love the MSM and wackopedia. Thanks for all the good work! Maybe you'll wake up when you can't write freely here because the Grand Imam of the United Nations of Allah has REALLY revoked your freedom of speech. Cheers. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.70.160.23 (talk) 09:09, 26 January 2007 (UTC).

Hyperbole much? --LeyteWolfer 10:56, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

The proper word is "racist". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.99.220.179 (talk) 21:51, 28 January 2007 (UTC).

That or "Fruit loop". Darkmind1970 14:17, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

what god, what great imam of whatever shit, you scum, fascist bastard, curse your god who ordered this fascists to kill Dink. here you go, freedom of speech.