Template talk:Oldafdfull

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Template:Oldafdfull has been protected indefinitely. Use {{editprotected}} on this page to request an edit.

This template was forked from Template:Oldvfdfull. I have migrated the discussion from Template talk:Oldvfdfull to here. --Blackcap | talk 03:31, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

I have updated the usage instructions above. Phil | Talk 11:27, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Use {{oldvfdfull2}} if the votepage is not under "Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/". It will allow you to direct link it.

1 TfD debate
2 "Default value for result, annotating"
3 Multiple nominations?
4 Talk page archiving
5 "here" piped link
6 Blank spaces keep intruding
7 Make result bold
8 Making the date optional
9 "the discussion" link
10 fmt (minor)
11 Interwiki
12 Multiple nominations
13 See also
14 Date formatting
15 Substituting
16 Merge?

[edit] TfD debate

This template survived a debate at TfD. The discussion can be found here. -Splash^talk 02:10, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Default value for result, annotating"

Hi. First, sincere apologies for using the rollback button to revert Phil Boswell's recent edit to the template. this was an honest mistake. Second, I reverted because it seems to me that there's gotta be a mistake in the edit; the box looked really odd. I'm wondering if, should a change be made once more to the article, clear instructions and notes can be written on this talk page? Thanks. encephalon 11:41, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Thing is you've now broken those articles to which I applied the template when it had those default values in place. I'm going to reinstate the default value, with a simplified note to consult here: maybe you were a little startled because I tried to make it really obvious (or maybe you didn't realise that I had put <noinclude> around the instructions at the bottom?). HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 13:13, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, ok, here's the thing. Before your edit, this template produced a simple, useful, straightforward banner that said:

This article was nominated for deletion on November 15, 2005. The result of the discussion was keep. An archived record of this discussion can be found here.

The template was placed at the top of Talk pages of articles that survived AFD, as described in Wikipedia:Deletion process. It is produced by placing

{{subst:oldafdfull|date=date of nomination|result=result|votepage=article name}}

on the Talk page. With your edit, however, it became this. I guess I'm not sure why this is necessary? Very sincerely encephalon 14:29, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Multiple nominations?

Is there a way to adapt the template for articles that have been nominated more than once, or should I just use the template twice? (The article in question is List of villains, which was nominated once under the old VfD and once for AfD, and was kept both times. Right now I've got the template twice on the talk page.) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 06:05, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

In most cases that I've seen, there are just multiple templates. If you find that especially ugly, you can subst the first one and then edit it. —Cryptic (talk) 18:04, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! I should have thought of that. Done.

By the way, it is considered standard practice to keep a "formerly nominated for deletion" notice up indefinitely, isn't it? One user at Talk:List of villains was suggesting that once the nominators' objections had been answered, or if the article has changed radically, the notice can be removed. I haven't found a definitive policy either way. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 19:13, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Use multiple templates rather than trying to mangle multiple instances together. Old VFD pages should be moved to AFD; old AFD pages (any new ones produced by moving VFD pages) should be renamed if necessary to avoid conflict. It is indeed standard practice to keep these notices up indefinitely: if an article has been targeted by vexatious deletions in the past, it is likely to continue receiving such attention and it is handy to be able to refer to previous arguments. HTH HAND Phil | Talk 11:12, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I thought the combined notice was more aesthetically pleasing than putting the template up twice (and didn't think there was any "mangling" involved), but if there's a good reason it should be there twice I don't have a problem with it.—Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 21:43, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk page archiving

IMO it would be a good idea not to move this notice into talk archive. If you agree, will it make sense to add a notice at the bottom of the template: "Please do not archive this notice"? Mukadderat 00:11, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, yes..you got a point there. I'd be in favour of that.

Soothing R 14:18, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "here" piped link

I previously changed the "here" piped link to an unpiped link to the AFD page and Phil Boswell reverted it per prior consensus (though I don't see the discussion for this). I can see that using an unpiped link can make the text too long. However, using a link text of "here" is very poor style. Here are some references:

How about a piped link other than "here" at least, for example, instead of

The result of the discussion was keep. An archived record of this discussion can be found here.

use the text

The result of the discussion was keep. (See the archived discussion.)

What do you think? —Quarl ^(talk) 2006-02-01 10:52Z

Or you could make it really simple:

The result of the discussion was keep.

HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 12:42, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Great idea. Done. —Quarl ^(talk) 2006-02-01 14:22Z

[edit] Blank spaces keep intruding

Could editors please be careful not to introduce a line-feed between the end-of-table ("|}") and <noinclude> tag: this makes an unsightly gap when the template is used. HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 10:47, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Make result bold

Is there any reason the bold syntax for the result cannot be put into the template, rather than require the author inserts it in the page? -- 9 cds^(talk) 18:31, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Apparently existing uses of the template already manually include the bolding so that would break it. But I agree that is merely a maintenance issue preventing the template from being improved. —Quarl ^(talk) 2006-07-07 18:11Z

Additionally, some people like to add extra explanation to the result, which is not bolded. Forcing people to cancel the bolding for this extra bit would not make it easier to use. HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 14:28, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Making the date optional

Good idea, one small problem - "recently"? Is a year ago really recently? :) -- 9 cds^(talk) 15:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree, how about "previously" instead or just make the sentence past perfect tense. —Quarl ^(talk) 2006-07-11 07:42Z

What about "This article was previously..." ?-- 9 cds^(talk) 09:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's fine. Ideally admins that close AFDs often should use scripts that write the date automagically. :) —Quarl ^(talk) 2006-07-11 12:18Z

[edit] "the discussion" link

If there is no "votepage" attribute, then there is no point having a link (that just points to AFD), it should just be plain text. This template is protected so I can't fix it, but can someone else, please? -- Renesis13 16:21, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm happy to make changes for you, but I don't understand the problem. If votepage is unspecified the default is to use the article's pagename, which is correct 99% of the time. Can you point to an example use of oldafdfull where the problem you're describing exists? —Quarl ^(talk) 2006-08-11 21:39Z

[edit] fmt (minor)

Put the  comment at the end of the table, where it appears on every other boilerplate, rather than at the beginning.
Remove the superfluous "|-" on the second line.
Remove the superfluous linebreak between the clipboard image and the start of the second cell.

--CharlotteWebb 11:47, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. —Mets501 (talk) 14:37, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interwiki

Please add [[ru:Шаблон:Oldafdfull]] for Russian. --Vlad Jaroslavleff 19:41, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Done. —Quarl ^(talk) 2006-09-13 05:59Z

[edit] Multiple nominations

There's a discussion page on an article I've worked on that has been nominated more than once, and each one got a different template, and they're different sizes. I'd rather combine them, but right now I just eliminated whitespace between them. Because of some of the points addressed in previous discussions, there could be another AfD discussion in the future; having too many templates at the top could detract from the actual discussion (such as it is). Any suggestions? A smaller or special template, perhaps? B7T 12:46, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The reason they are different sizes is that one is substituted; this template should not be substituted. For articles with multiple nominations, we could revise the template to admin several nominations, so that all the relevant information can be in just one header, while still using a form template. —Centrx→talk • 20:35, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

We already have: {{multidel}}, which requires slightly different formatting of the nominations, but does the job perfectly. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 10:09, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I just created {{Oldafdmulti}}, which makes a list similar to {{multidel}}, but is more compatible with this current template. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 11:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] See also

Perhaps someone can include a see also section, linking to:

Template:Oldafdmulti - For listing multiple nominations, compatible with this template
Template:Multidel - For listing multiple nominations, not compatible, but allows more freedom

--Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 12:04, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Done. —Quarl ^(talk) 2006-10-16 23:19Z

Thanks, that was quick! -Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 08:08, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Date formatting

I've noticed this template being used with ambiguous date formats (see eg Talk:Tactics of the Roman century in combat) such as "1-9-07" which could be either of two dates depending on which country you live in (1st september 07, or 9th January 07). Would it be possible for this template to be altered (or a new template used in its place) that explicitly requires dates in the format DD-MMMMMMMM-YYYY or YYYY-MMMMMMMMM-DD or similar in order to prevent any confusion or ambiguity? If not, could a recommendation of an approved format at least be noted on the template page?? Thanks - PocklingtonDan 17:08, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

There are three "magic" date formats which should all appear the same if you have made a choice in the "Date and time" tab of Special:Preferences:

If you don't understand what I mean, click the edit link for this section and look at the 3 asterisk/bullet items. I would recommend consistent use of one of these formats, though it really doesn't matter which. — CharlotteWebb 14:42, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I've noticed the same problem. Why does the template not follow my date preferences? -- Mikeblas 22:11, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
- Probably, the users whom you've seen applying the template have not properly wikified the dates in one of the three formats above, if you do in fact have a preference set. — CharlotteWebb 00:45, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Substituting

Why should this template not be substituted? It doesn't seem clear to me. Cool Hand Luke 23:53, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I also have a question about this issue. Generally this template is not substituted, but I have seen some administrators subst it on talk pages after closing AfDs. Did they do it wrong or it simply doesn't matter whether this template is substituted or not. If the latter then why there is a warning saying that it should not be subst??? Pea ceNT 09:43, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

In principle, the template should not be substituted, because it is a header and there is no reason not to preserve the template functionality. Substituting does not break anything, however. —Centrx→talk • 17:06, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation. I do not subst the template when using it, but never knew the exact reason why it shouldn't be subst. Somehow it never occurred to me that this template is a header. Silly me. Pea ceNT 09:13, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge?

What does everyone think of merging this template into Template:oldafdmulti? From what I've noticed there is a high propensity for articles that survive AFD once to go through it again. This is particularly true for articles that survive due to no consensus or are the topics are controversial. Oldafdmulti is only slightly larger than this one for articles that go through deletion once, so there shouldn't be any impact to the talk pages and for those that go through AFD multiple times, there's definitely a decrease in the amount of space oldafdmulti takes up compared to the amount of space multiple copies of this template takes up. Just figured I'd go about testing the community barometer before sending this through TFD. Thoughts? --Bobblehead 21:24, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

As the original author and main editor of Template:oldafdmulti (which got a major update today), I feel there is no need to combine the two at the moment. The multi-deletion template is fully compatible, as it allows the exact same input, so this one is easily replaced when adding the next AfD. Also, deletion of Oldafdfull would damage a lot of talk pages, so redirecting it would be a better idea (as oldafdmulti is fully compatible, redirecting will yield proper results) in my opinion. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 21:31, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't my intention to delete this template, but to make it a redirect to oldafdmulti. The reference to TFD was more for the discussion portion of the process, rather than the deletion process. As you said, outright deleting this page would break thousands of articles, so deletion is not a viable option. A fully compatible multi template seems to make a template for single AFDs redundant in my opinion. No sense in having two templates do the same thing, especially when one is more versatile than the other. --Bobblehead 23:31, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

That kinda makes sense, lets wait and see how others feel about it. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 00:33, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

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