Talk:Operation Sealion

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You should note that Plymouth was used principally by the 29th Armoured Division as a staging post for the D-Day landings at Utah and Omaha beaches, so the original post was technically correct. The remains of their embarcation points known as 'Chocolate Box Hards' can still be seen at Mount Edgecombe Park, and at Saltash Passage. sjc

Sorry, I don't get it. The Germans wanted to invade Britain between Dover and Portsmouth (and my brain inserted Plymouth, uhhh). D-Day was the other way round and took place years later. RedMabuse

Sorry, my brain hurts, I'm mixing up D-Day and the other lot's attempt to land over here! Mea culpa. sjc

I removed a paragraph saying that "With air superiority the Germans would have undoubtedly have invaded and carried out their successful blitzkrieg tactics.". I removed it because it was in direct contradiction with the two paragraphs that went above it. (It's arguable that it could have happened, but not 'undoubted'). Whoever added this, you need to widen your research or present your sources for this being the most likely outcome. DJ Clayworth 16:35, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

"British silent service action against landing forces must be prevented.". Does this mean submarines? Isn't that covered under item 1? DJ Clayworth 16:38, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

It has been suggested in a number of texts that Hitler was ambivalent about invading Britain. Should that be mentioned here ? Julianp 04:20, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

1 "When Hitler Invaded Britain"
2 The Black Book
3 Prior Exercises
4 Battle Plan
5 Last paragraph
6 Eszett (ß)
7 First paragraph
8 Operation Bagpipe
9 Operation Artus
10 Plans after May 1941

[edit] "When Hitler Invaded Britain"

There was a TV show on the History Channel called "When Hitler Invaded Britain" (imdb). I found a lot of stuff very interesting, such as:

General Alan Brooke authorized the use of mustard gas on the beaches against the invading German troops
scare of 5th column infiltration under Ironside's command
several incidents, like accidental killing of civilians by nervous military personnel
training of "suicide squads" for guerilla warfare behind German lines
gold assets already moved to Canada in preparation for the invasion
plans for evacuating the British cabinet and the royal family to Canada in case of an invasion

A review of the show: [1]

I'll try to find better references for all this when I have the time.

Nyenyec 02:25, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This link provides an interesting analysis of the impracticability of the Seelowe plan.

For a summary of the worst-case scenario, also by Alison Brooks, see [2]

—wwoods 08:25, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Black Book

Wikipedia. I think a section should be included on the Black Book of Brtitons to be killed if the Germans would have succeded, which of course would not really have been possible

[edit] Prior Exercises

I have a book (it is a biography on Hitler and I don't know its current location) that talked about how prior to switching to bombing civilians the Germans ran exercises to train their troop in amphibious landings (I believe in Norway) but they were complete and utter faliures, so they would not have been able to launch the invasion even if the Raf and RN were annihilated.

[edit] Battle Plan

I added information about the battle plan based on a map I saw. I need help citing the book. Captain Jackson 04:52, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Last paragraph

sorry but imo the last segment of the article seems rather stupid/irrelevant(mainly the part with the internet jokes about sea lions). 84.169.207.243 23:37, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. It also constitutes original research. I'll delete it. Jooler 23:39, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

You beat me to it! It was there when I read the article, and gone when I loaded the source! -- stillnotelf is invisible 23:41, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eszett (ß)

I don't think the eszett character (ß) should ever be used in English writing. It is not part of the English alphabet and should be transliterated to "ss".

[edit] First paragraph

"Operation Sealion (Unternehmen ("Undertaking") Seelöwe in German) was a World War II German plan to invade the United Kingdom. It was never carried out."

Saying Operation Sealion "...was never carried out" is misleading. The naval invasion never happened but that was because the German Air Force did not achieve air superiority. Surely the Battle of Britain was the opening, and final, volley of Operation Sealion?

Perhaps "It was never carried out" should be amended to read, "Due to the inability of the German Air Force (Luftwaffe) to obtain air superitory over the Royal Air Force, the planned sea invasion of South-east England was never realised." Or words to that effect; alternatively just delete "It was never carried out"? Psywar 04:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Operation Bagpipe

I removed the operation bagpipe bit as it looks a bit like childish vandalism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.145.242.22 (talk) 17:56, 10 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Operation Artus

I removed this for a few reasons:

It wasnt a German plan, it was the name the German Foreign Ministry gave to Plan Kathleen simply to have something convenient to refer to it by
Kathleen was the sketched out plan of how the IRA would assist in a German invasion (a German invasion plan also sketched out by the IRA). Kathleen was written for Stephen Hayes then acting Chief of Staff who sent it to Germany.
The closest thing that exists to a German plan for invasion of british controlled land in Ireland is the Kurt Student plan 1941. It was never put on paper and remained a brainstorm in Students mind.

I've tried to describe why "Artus" is a bogus description creating a misleading impression in the minds of the reader on other talk pages. This has had little effect so ive taken to changing the detail myself. All the information on Kathleen is in the article I wrote on the subject. Please respond here before resurrecting 'Artus' again. Fluffy999 19:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plans after May 1941

Kurt Leyman deleted the following twice:

In addition to the loss of the French fleet and the bitter fighting against the Soviets, the losses in personnel and materiel suffered by German paratroopers during the Battle of Crete, in May 1941, could not be replaced in time for the planned operation.

With edit comment:

Anyone who has done some research knows how irrelevant to Seelöwe - 1940 plan information concerning mid/late 1941 that information is.

Even though I am not the editor who added the above, I think the reverses that Nazi Germany faced to May 1941 are relevant to the question of what changed to make an invasion in that year impractical or impossible.

Is a summary of what changed from Fall 1940 to Spring 1941 to make an invasion impractical or impossible relevant to the article?

And if it is, is the above text a good summary?

I'm not delighted by the arrogant anyone who has done some research knows... The Wikipedia exists to provide answers for people who have not already done the research and, in fact, are doing that research here. patsw 02:12, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

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