User talk:Orangemike/Archive1

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents 1 Welcome 2 Bill Rotsler 3 Handmaid's Tale 4 Bay View Massacre 5 The Plot Against America as science fiction 6 Obernewtyn Chronicles as 'not' fantasy 7 Temeraire 8 Moving existing articles to disambiguate from non-existant authors 9 Re: "Commonweal" is not "Commonwealth" 10 mke 11 RE: fanzine: 12 "Excess" links on D&D article 13 Eastside Milwaukee 14 Redirect 15 ID 16 Re:user reads science fiction NOT sci-fi 17 Re:Userbox for person who reads science fiction, not "sci-fi" 18 Signature 19 Wikilink to Wisconsin 20 Flemish? 21 Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fishing for pike 22 Prechter Bio 23 ? 24 Martin Luther King. The Womanizer. 25 Hawaii/ILWU 26 Blanking 'Mission statement' 27 Milwaukee Police Association 28 Bus Stop intransigence 29 Milwaukee Police Association 30 SF links 31 Thanks 32 Not appreciated 33 science fiction studies 34 Grand supercycles 35 Public Utilities 36 Cable TV spamming issue 37 indy in chipitts 38 Thanks! 39 Milwaukee Panthers athletics section 40 Chester Counties 41 Labourer 42 Platform (Scottish politics) 43 BURT 44 Independent proposal for WP:CAL and WP:SOCAL tags 45 Saadi 46 Hey! 47 University of Wisconsin 48 "The other Andy Porter" 49 RP 50 List of Dungeons & Dragons popular culture references links 51 User:Worthadonkey 52 The Incomplete Enchanter vs. The Incompleat Enchanter 53 Thanks 54 warnings? 55 Re: Peckhams 56 Wikilinks (Pamela Dean) 57 Hello? 58 Image 59 Goofed-up Template Problem 60 Offense 61 Renaissance Bookstore 62 Userpage vandalism 63 book spammer 64 "Brush up on the culture"?

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Bill Rotsler

<wave> It's a small Web, isn't it? I have been helping here and there, now mostly on the ISFDB side of things. Your list of contributions suggests that you haven't been idle either :) Ahasuerus 22:37, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

It seemed The Fannish Thing To Do!--Orange Mike 23:04, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, WP and other collaborative Wiki-like projects are every fan's dream come true :-) Ahasuerus 00:22, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Handmaid's Tale

I'm testing out this whole writing on your talk page... (this is your talk page, right?) I really haven't read that much feminist science fiction, but now that I've read He, She, and It I plan on reading more, as well as more cyberpunk novels in general... And to answer your questions, I haven't been to any science fiction conventions. Thanks for explaining how to do some stuff around here though! I'm starting to get the hang of it, I think. --Ms tinkleton 19:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Bay View Massacre

Hi.. I noticed that the article you created on the Bay View Massacre seems to be taken from the Wisconsin Laborers District Council website. On your user page you describe yourself as a writer, so I'm hoping that you own the copyright to that essay. :) If so, then I think a declaration needs to be made on the Wikipedia article talk page, otherwise it would need to be removed. Take care! Sulfur 23:43, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello again... I'm hoping you could address this concern? Thanks for your time! Sulfur 19:33, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

The Plot Against America as science fiction

To quote the Science fiction article: "Science fiction is a genre of fiction in which at least part of the narrative depends on the impact of science, either real or imagined, to generate settings or events which have not yet occurred in reality" (emphasis added). Roth's novel has no speculative science in it, not even any non-speculative science. I don't know how it can qualify as science fiction without the science part. Much alternate history qualifies as science fiction, but there is much that doesn't. --dm ^(talk) 19:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Obernewtyn Chronicles as 'not' fantasy

Hi Orangemike, this series of novels is marketed as a fantasy series, is published under the fantasy imprint of Tor Books and its author describes it as fantasy. It does fall under the science fiction definition as well, but it is probably best described as a blending of both genres. Rigel 11:35, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Temeraire

Is there a specific reason you'd classify the series as sf? It's dragons and sailing ships, there isn't really anything I'd think of as science. Both the author's official website and her livejournal call it fantasy, or historical fantasy. Rokeon 00:21, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Ah! Interesting that when I go to post about it, somebody already has! And here I was going to congratulate you on picking up on the fact that despite the author referring to it as more of a fantasy work, it's really a mixture of SF and fantasy, since she actually bothers to explain somewhat how the dragons are capable of flight, and the acid-spitting that the Longwings are capable of was bred out of an ability to spit (according to her own notes in the back of the first book) "venom" which eventually became so strong as "to be properly termed acid". ;) I think that because of this, putting it in both categories is just fine. After all, my mother's already said she can tell that the author's read McCaffrey's dragon works (not to say that the Temeraire series is particularly derivitive, as it's frankly quite original from what I can tell, just obviously influenced by certain other authors, especially McCaffrey), and McCaffrey's Pern novels are generally seen as something in between or in combination of SF and fantasy (I haven't read them yet myself, but my mother's read a LOT of them, and I've read plenty about them, and that's what I've sort of seen thus far).

Anyway, I also figured you'd want to know that I've finally gone ahead and created a page for His Majesty's Dragon, and have linked it from Temeraire (series). Frankly, it's still more of a stub than anything else, but it's better than nothing. I'm leary of adding more plot and character information before I've figured out how to use spoiler tags, though.  :P But I will try anyway tommorrow. Feel free to contribute in the meantime, though. I've already started in on the dragons stuff, though frankly, I'm starting to wonder now if that portion might not be better modified somewhat and moved into the original Temeraire (series) article. What do you think?

Coincidentally, how do you add an image again? I'd like to add an image of the cover to His Majesty's Dragon. *is still a bit of a Wikipedia newbie in respects to "fancy" stuff like that* Runa27 05:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Moving existing articles to disambiguate from non-existant authors

Please stop moving pages, such as Kevin Smith, just because another person shares the name. Create Kevin Smith (author) (or whatever) first, then discuss whether the base name Kevin Smith should be a disambiguation page, or if the existing Kevin Smith page can remain and a new Kevin Smith (disambiguation) should be created. Thanks. -- JHunterJ 23:59, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Point taken. I've created a page for the scientifictional Kevin Smith; would you prefer to create the disambiguation page yourself?--Orange Mike 00:08, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Dab already exists (as I noticed when I saw my comment link wasn't red, and as you noticed because the editor is in it now). I'm not up on my Romainian soccer, but it could also be that Martin Gheorghe Tudor is not the right name for that article move either. The only English news reference I could find ("Cluj prepare all out attack on Lens", August 21, 2005 Agence France Presse -- English) calls him Martin Tudor. The base Martin Tudor probably should be the dab here, but the footballer should probably be Martin Tudor (footballer) instead. (And the things previously linked to the footballer as Martin Tudor should be updated so they don't link to the dab). I may get around to that myself later, if you haven't by then. Thanks for your own level-headedness too. :-) -- JHunterJ 10:32, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: "Commonweal" is not "Commonwealth"

Thanks. That was my last edit of the night, I guess I didn't stare at it long enough. --- Jagged 12:08, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

mke

Hi Mike, got your comment on "mke." I placed the reference tag, because it had no links to any evidence supporting it exists, I'm not saying it doesn't, but as the wikipedia guideline says, a link to an existing source will make the article better. Perhaps a link to the official homepages of the mke magazine? Thanks a bunch.--sin-man 02:36, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, like this?--Orange Mike 03:53, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

ya, thx! great work. I also added an infobox. Please fill in any free spaces. Regards--sin-man 04:06, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

RE: fanzine:

Well done! Thank you! Icarus 23 02:34, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, having Ted White around to ask, and folks like Robert Lichtman, Andy Porter, etc. to clarify, sure helped!--Orange Mike 03:30, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Careful with that -- I can't point to the articles (I'm still new at this), but Wikipedia frowns on original research, conducting interviews JUST for Wikipedia purposes, and not citing PUBLISHED sources. That being stated, another clause says 'be bold'. Icarus 23 13:42, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

That's why I carefully cited printed sources (to which Ted and others pointed me).--Orange Mike 13:51, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

"Excess" links on D&D article

You've just removed most of the links I added to various other D&D items, for things like the group Dead Alewives and so on. Why do you deem these links "excessive"? I'd thought that they were highly appropriate, but I'm always glad to learn new things.--Orange Mike 15:54, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi. This is a disambiguation page, so in general it should be formatted according to the MoS:DAB guidelines. See the section on individual entries for the relevant guideline: "Each bulleted entry should, in almost every case, have exactly one navigable (blue) link." For further discussion, see the related talk page discussion. Regards. --Muchness 16:13, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks; I'll know better next time.--Orange Mike 16:41, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Eastside Milwaukee

From a legal point of view, a merger only happens between two independent legal entities. UW-extension at Milwaukee was not an independent entity. So it is fundanmentally wrong to say UW extension is a party of the merger. The merger basically is UW took over that time Milwaukee college. As a result of this takeover, the Milwaukee College changed its name to University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee and the former UW externsion at Milwaukee became part of UWM. Superficially, this may look to ordinary people that the merger is between UW extension and Milwaukee college. But it is just an informal ordinary people's point of view. To avoid editing war, please talk with me if you are unsatisfied with my explanation, because I think you wording put UWM at lower level than it should be. Miaers 23:04, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

UW did not take over anything; they fought fiercely and in all sorts of venues to prevent the infant institution being gestated from having their precious "University of Wisconsin" on it in any way; they even got the Attorney General to issue a scare advisory that it might be unconstitutional to have a "University of Wisconsin" anywhere outside the bounds of Madison. (And of course they continue to this day to deprive Milwaukee of as much funding as they can grab.) I am trying to give proper recognition to the hardworking people of the UW-Extension who were absorbed by the new entity, which in turn was firmly under the control of people like Dr. Klotsche who had been with the former Wisconsin State C.- Milwaukee/MSTC: not the other way around. Esoteric legalisms have no place in this venue. This article is not a legal brief, it's an explanation of what happened for a lay readership. All contemporary accounts described this as a merger of complementary peers. The new entity was combining the old, less-academically-prestigious undergraduate functions of MSTC/WSCM with the primarily graduate functions of the non-autonomous UW-Extension. This new, more prestitious entity, better funded than WSCM had been and no longer under Madison's thumb the way the extension had been, in turn would be able to expand on the East Side. The new entity would even be able to offer doctorates (eventually), although again Madison fought that and continues to fight that.--Orange Mike 23:36, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

UW took over a new campus at Milwaukee. Please be aware of the NPOV. This is an encyclopedia. Things should be based on facts not some people's feelings or personal point of view. By the way, the Milwaukee college had its graduate program before the merger. And UW-Extension is basically nothing. Since when UW-Extension became primarily graduate degrees functioning? Please be sure what you are talking about.  :) Miaers 00:06, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but you don't seem to know any of the history of Milwaukee of that period. At that time, most of the UW Extension in Milwaukee was graduate and continuing education. The program had its own building and its own staff; it was not "basically nothing"! WSC-M was being blocked from adding any meaningful graduate programs because UW insisted that this should be their exclusive prerogative. Returning GIs were told that they should come to Madison if they wanted to get an engineering education past the freshman-sophomore, as UW would not allow the programs in Milwaukee to expand to an extent that would rival their own. The politics were annoyingly byzantine. This is all there in the newspapers of the time, which I read for a living. UW never had control of the new entity, and did not "take over a new campus"! The new entity was controlled by former WSC-M administrators such as Dr. Klotsche, who continue to be Chancellor of the new entity for almost two decades to come; it was part of the deal by which UWM was created, that we be autonomous and not subject to UW as the Extension was.--Orange Mike 00:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Hello, Are you satisfied with my explaination? I don't think all the people in Madison think the way as you do? Is it ok for me to revert your edit? Miaers 00:15, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Please do not revert. I have no idea what people in Madison think, nor do I care; I'm here in Milwaukee (room W197 of the UWM Union at the moment). The 50-year history of UWM is one of independence from and competition with Madison.--Orange Mike 00:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Hello, do you know the NPOV policy? Things should be based on facts not your or other people's personal point of view. Miaers 01:18, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Certainly; I'm trying to keep to a NPOV on this subject. You seem to have a theory (based on original research or some legal principle I don't quite grasp) that UW "took over" the old WSC-M when UWM was established; and I'm trying to report dispassionately what the accounts of the event say took place. I wish there were other folks out there to tell the two of us whether either one of us has a true NPOV; but I believe (perhaps incorrectly) that I am keeping to one. At any rate, I only ask that you not revert anything farther. --Orange Mike 01:23, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

UW took over the campus at Milwaukee, which became part of the assets of UW afterwards. As simple as that, what can't you grasp? UW-Madison is also part of the assets of UW. Your wording "combine Milwaukee college and UW-extension to create UWM" put UWM at a lower level than it shoud in the merger, because UW-extension is not an independent legal entity. That's why I reverted your inaccurate edit. Is there anything POV or inaccurate in my previous edit "Milwaukee college was merged into UW to create UWM"? Miaers 01:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah-ha! I think I see part of our problem here! You are using "UW" as shorthand for "The University of Wisconsin System Board of Regents" whereas I see "UW" and think "the University of Wisconsin, Madison campus"! The new entity was under the Regents, same as the Madison campus was; but I don't think of that as what your phrase conveys to the casual reader accustomed to the claims of the Madison campus to sole possession of the initials UW. We've been talking past each other, I fear, generating more heat than light. I regret the confusion.--Orange Mike 01:48, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

UW is an ambiguous term. It doesn't only refer to UW-Madison. Does "UW-Milwaukee was created when Milwaukee college was merged into UW system" sound good to you? Miaers 01:55, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

"Milwaukee college" sounds ugly because there never was such an entity. Look at what I just did on the page and see if it seems sound and NPOV to you, ok? Then maybe I can go out and get a snack or something else more satisfactory than these dry syllables. I got a wife and child out there I haven't seen since 7 this morning :( --Orange Mike 02:03, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I definitely will use "Wisconsin State College-Milwaukee" in the article. But I don't think the thing you put in the parenthesis is necessary, because UWM is more commonly known to have a precessor as "Milwaukee State Normal School". UWM is currently at the orginal site of Milwaukee State Normal School. What kind of UW extension facilities are you talking about? Is there any building on UWM campus UW-extension's previous assets? Miaers 02:14, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

No big; I used the two more recent names, rather than the oldest name. UW Extension had two multifloor buildings downtown that UWM used for some time before abandoning them in the 1970s sometime. They were a block or two north of the current state office building, just past the freeway ramp (they were torn down and there are now parking lots there). These buildings were used for a lot of night classes, continuing education, etc. by the new school; the sort of things that are now housed in the Plankinton Building. When the new UWM was created, there was a parade from one campus to the other and then a march down Wisconsin Avenue.--Orange Mike 02:24, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Redirect

Hi there, I don't want to repeat this but could you take your crap somewhere else. Have you ever seen any University have its old names listed at the beginnig of the article or have a seperate article for its history? Miaers 20:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Huh? They aren't at the beginning of the article, they are buried deep in the article in the "History" section, as is appropriate. What are you talking about? I'm deeply confused by the occasional hostility you show in these matters. --Orange Mike 21:44, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I think you need to read Andrewa's comments in more detail. He actually listed and highlighted the old name at the begining not deep in the history section to conform to relevent Wikipedia rules for redirect. Miaers 21:52, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I see that he did so at one time. But don't post to my talk page to complain about what a third party did!--Orange Mike 22:05, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

ID

"rasseffer" does not compute, though I have my suspicions. I am a LASFSian (but only because death does not release you). Many pkms in fandom. - PKM 20:22, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, no, GEnie, not rec.arts.sf  :-) But we have acquaintances in common (TNH for one...) - paula kate

Re:user reads science fiction NOT sci-fi

This unsigned comment was left here:

I'd like to see a userbox for "This person enjoys reading Science Fiction" without a UFO "alien" graphic or the much-despised term "Sci-Fi" on it: a simple rocketship or planet graphic, perhaps. Can somebody more skilled in programming help me here?

I have desingned the userbox. If you were the one who posed this notice, let me know.

--Ignatzmice^talk 20:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Re:Userbox for person who reads science fiction, not "sci-fi"

Code: {{User:Scepia/sci-fi1}}

Result:

Signature

Your signature doesn't link to your userpage. To make it link there, in "my preferences", check "Raw sig", add User:Orangemike and a | (shift+\) before your current sig, and enclose everythig with [[ ]]

--Ignatzmice^talk 15:00, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikilink to Wisconsin

I notice you've removed the wikilink from History of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee to Wisconsin. Is there some particular reason for this?

It may seem obvious to you what Wisconsin means, but English Wikipedia caters to all English speakers, including those who haven't ever studied US geography (how many of the counties of England do you know?), and those for whom English is a second or third language, and those who are in both groups. For them this link would be very helpful, and it does no harm. Andrewa 01:49, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

There were some duplicate wikilinks there, and in removing them I inadvertently removed that one as well; it's been restored. --Orange Mike 02:02, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Looks good! Thank you. Andrewa 06:27, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Flemish?

Pardon my ignorance, but I have no idea what Flemish is... elighten me. --Illwauk 21:50, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

The adjective Flemish refers to everything and everybody that has a relation to Flanders, in every geographical definition. It is also used for everything originating from Flanders, cultural, political, economical, etc. Specifically, Milwaukee's city hall is in the architectural style known as Flemish Renaissance. --Orange Mike 00:02, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fishing for pike

Could you clarify why you chose delete instead of Transwikification? The transwikification won't have any ill effects on the quality of the pike article and still removes the material from Wikipedia while putting it where it belongs (on WikiBooks). - Mgm|^(talk) 11:15, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not a big fan of the whole WikiBooks thing. This article is so blatantly not encyclopedic that I mostly want it gone. --Orange Mike 19:31, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Prechter Bio

Hello Orange Mike,

I noticed your comment on the Prechter bio AFD, and that you've made some clean up edits to the bio itself. I also see from your user page that you're an experienced writer. You probably noticed that I'm in an absurdly contentious revert war with another editor regarding Prechter's bio, and since it's just the two of us there I don't see an easy way out. Any neutral perspective will help. If you think it's a tar pit you can do without, fair enough -- or, if you give an open-minded reading to my comments on the Talk:Robert Prechter and conclude that I'm full of it, fair enough. Virtually anything you add to the talk page would improve what's there now. Thanks, --Rgfolsom 21:15, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the candid comments. I have read the COI guideline several times and I really did understand the risks, including the risk of not disguising my identity. FWIW, I wouldn't have waded into this mess if several of these pages hadn't already been overrun by editors with an obvious POV, and with no one to point it out. Thanks for your time. Rgfolsom 14:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

 ?

Hey, I'm really sorry. I was being an ass hole and I know it, and knew it. I don't know what gets into me sometimes, but for some reason I just feel like vandalizing Wikipedia sometimes. It's wrong and I know it, and it is unfair for you and people who use it. So I'm sorry. I'll try not to do it again, but honestly, I probably will despite my efforts not to.

Martin Luther King. The Womanizer.

I feel it's kind of unfair for you to decide that its not appropriate, when it's a pretty important thing to stress. Wikipedia has a policy of NPOV and telling me I cant put this intrigal part of his life in the article is your point of view. Several others agree with you, but should all your points of view stop users from writing the facts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Olir (talk • contribs) 21:49, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

That's what the Wiki process is about: trying to reach a concensus on disputed issues. There has long since developed a concensus that this is not an integral part of his life, certainly not important enough to be in the opening paragraph. (And if this stuff is important to you, why don't you sign your name?) --Orange Mike 22:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

The wiki process isnt about not revealing facts because you and several others don't like them

Hawaii/ILWU

Because this isn't a local Hawaiian wiki, and Standard American English spelling is "Hawaii." --Lukobe 23:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Blanking 'Mission statement'

Please do not replace Wikipedia pages with blank content, as you did to Mission statement. Blank pages are harmful to Wikipedia because they have a tendency to confuse readers. If it is a duplicate article, please redirect it to an appropriate existing page. If the page has been vandalised, please revert it to the last legitimate version. If you feel that the content of a page is inappropriate, please edit the page and replace it with appropriate content. If you believe there is no hope for the page, please see the deletion policy for how to proceed.

diff in question --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 16:04, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Milwaukee Police Association

I think it is very relevant to mention in the article the fact that the current head of the Milwaukee Police Association was such an incompetent police officer that he didn't bother to run a background check on Jeffery Dahmer when he caught him and indirectly aided in the death and cannibalization of a 14 year old boy. But if you feel sympathy for the homophobe then I guess I can't stop you, I'm not in the mood for an edit war. The Fading Light 03:11, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I feel no sympathy for him. I just don't think it's appropriate to put the information in the MPA article. --Orange Mike 14:51, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Bus Stop intransigence

You're welcome Orange Mike! I kept adding examples of the visual arts, though it didn't seem to do any good. Now I notice that Bus Stop wants to eliminate the Nambassa photo too, because he says it appeals to "prurient interests." Now that's just silly!

Bus Stop's current change radically changes the meaning of the sentence. I have no taste for revert wars, yet reason seems to have no effect. I suppose we could at least change "visual landscape" (?!) to "visual arts."

It seems that Bus Stop has a problem with the visual arts in general--doesn't much care for them.

Any changes you want to make would be welcome. Apostle12 19:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

His page says he's a painter (abstract); I think he's some kind of academic/"high art" snob with a side of prudery. Please make the revert this time so he can't just blame me? --Orange Mike 19:40, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Milwaukee Police Association

I've added the "{{prod}}" template to the article Milwaukee Police Association, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, or, if you disagree with the notice, discuss the issues at Talk:Milwaukee Police Association. You may remove the deletion notice, and the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached, or if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria. Brianyoumans 19:56, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

SF links

The links had already been slaughtered some time ago and were re-added, it seemed only right to slaughter them (again) - a link to the International Spamtastic Organisation has been left though - does that not suffice ;)? thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 16:32, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for restoring some of Slimvirgin's cuts. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pleasantville (talk • contribs) 22:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC).

Not appreciated

Just to let you know that I do not appreciate your comments at Talk:Kathryn_Cramer. I care deeply for this project, and to be referred as a "harsh" person "who disdain expertise and carry on grudges" is, beyond being an incorrect assessment on your part, inflammatory, and insulting. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 01:27, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know how else to characterize your attitude towards Cramer, however inept her initial blunders were. I really fear the inflammatory and insulting attitude you and SlimVirgin have displayed has done a great deal of permanent harm to the reputation of the Wikipedia project, about which I, too, care deeply. I will concede, however, the possibility that the two of you have somewhat blurred together in my mind and that you may have been a trifle less harsh and grudge-laden in your postings than he/she. This whole mess has distressed me a great deal. --Orange Mike 01:36, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

If that is the case, rather than escalating the issue (that will do no good), you can avoid making such comments, as these are indeed not helpful. Not to Mrs Cramer, not to her article, and not to our project. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 01:50, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

You may well be right. --Orange Mike 02:15, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

science fiction studies

Hi Orangemike -- you're one of the only other fans I know personally here at wikipedia. Someone has PRODded New York Review of Science Fiction, and you are one of the only other folks I can think of who would get SF studies enough to help work on this article. I'm very annoyed right now by this misunderstanding of academic journals. You can't run a google test on an academic journal to see if there are third-party articles -- on the Internet! -- about an academic journal. That shouldn't be the test. So annoying. Anyway, if you have time & inclination and can help improve the article, please do so. ... This has also spurred me to formalize my half-thought out plans to deal with an official SF studies portion of the Wikiproject on SF, and also to raise the issue of journals on WP:Notability for academics proposal. --lquilter 05:01, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Another sercon fan here. PRODding NYRSF is ridiculous. - PKM 17:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

At least that mess (induced by the Cramer controversy) is over with. I must say, though that, as a sercon fan but one with no academic credentials in the field, I do somewhat resent the use of terms like "fanboy" and "fangirl" as pure pejoratives. --Orange Mike 00:53, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

• Sorry Orangemike! I don't really mean them as pure pejoratives -- I'm a fangirl and sometimes a fanboi myself. I was just annoyed by the disproportionate favoring of pure (often media & game) fannishness over, you know, geeky/reading/academic fannishness. Actually I'm not even geeky enough to know what "sercon" means -- is it "serious con", a la Wiscon, Potlatch, and ReaderCon? Because if so, then that's me to a T. Anyway ... I just started Science fiction studies and Category:Science fiction studies, so if you've got relevant stuff to go there, please do. --lquilter 02:31, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Originally "sercon" was short for SERious CONstructive discussion of Science Fiction as a literature, and was a pejorative meant to mock certainly people who felt that fanzines were too, you know, fannish! --Orange Mike 02:54, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

And some of us wear that "sercon" banner proudly, by gum! Or did back in the '70s anyway.

If it's not in fanspeak I really must add it - running off to check. - PKM 04:19, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

The people to whom it was originally applied were fuggheads and cranks, and the original use thereof in fandom reflected that. Indeed, I know a few Olde Phartes of Phandom who are still disconcerted at the fact that people like you and I accept the term with pride. So if you're gonna put anything in fanspeak, make sure that it reflects the complex history of the term. (This is not one of those things like 'Quaker' and 'Methodist' where the labelled group accepted the term and made it their own. The original sercon people just ignored the silly fannish types and wished that they would go away.) --Orange Mike 15:14, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Grand supercycles

Dear OrangeMike,

Very good to run into you again. Hopefully this time will be more relaxed than last. Please tell me if you think I'm stepping out of line.

I'm sure you realize that I'm trying to put the entire Robert Prechter Elliott wave complex onto a reasonable basis. Grand supercycle is really a mess and I don't know where to start. I've thought about putting a {{nonsense} tag on it.

Nikolai Kondratiev and Kondratiev wave have less connection than meets the eye. NK is an interesting, if barely notable historical figure in economics (business cycle theories), K wave is about predicting financial market prices.

Smallbones 18:22, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Elliott wave claims to be about similar topics. If there's a Template:Cleanup-this-mess, I'd support it. --Orange Mike 18:57, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Public Utilities

If you think they're such a problem, then go ahead and delete them from all the city articles that list them. Don't just sit there and complain and prevent other people from making contributions. And don't ever tell anybody to "cease and desist" ever again. Yes, you ARE one of the reasons I'm leaving wikipedia. I was a good contributor to philosophy articles before User:spamreporter1 made it his mission to drive me away because of the cable company references I added, then proceeded to clean up and de-commercialize as best I could, all completely voluntarily.

Cable TV spamming issue

Thank you for weighing in on this Cable TV spamming issue. In my view, this is not a close question! Spamreporter1 19:00, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

indy in chipitts

oh, thanks for the heads-up . . . the link was misleading, so I thought the person who put it up just chose three cities. :-p

Thanks!

Thanks for the important addition to white flight futurebird 17:35, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Milwaukee Panthers athletics section

I'd honestly love to, but am afraid I don't quite have the User skill and know-how needed to create a new page, or move that section to one. I could do the content editing, etc. once it's there, but that's it. On my last few edits to the section, I did try to update and add to the section value-wise w/o actually growing it content-wise. I could try to parse it down a bit to only the more meaningful stuff, like axe the club sports details, etc., but otherwise I think it's no more "bloated" than many other D-I schools w/successful athletics programs (Marquette University's athletics section comes to mind). There's gotta be someone knowledgable than I who could give it its proper section, and hopefully that will solve any issues you may have with it. Sorry I can't be of more help, but I thank you for asking! CollegeSportsGuy 07:13, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Chester Counties

I agree, although Im not surprised that there isnt a place called Deanburg in the UK, the ending (burg) is very uncommon in Britain, although it is common in Scandanavia. I was expecting to have to call it Deanburg tennessee, but seeing as there was no other deanburg, I just called it that. To be honest, it is just coincidence that I came across an uncreated Deanburg link on the Chickasaw State Park (Tennessee) page as I was Random Articling! ~ JFBurton 18:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

There are three Chester Counties in the States; the one in Tennessee is named after a person, but the other two may be named after the ancient County of Chester, where you live. What an odd coincidence!

Labourer

No, just got sacked! No, I deleted it because I dont really want people knowing my REAL job. I just put it there because it can mean anything. Also, I've had a few people come to me and say 'are you a labourer, thats a crap job!' (or something like that). So now Im just nothing. I started the Jacks Creek article but it is very sparse. Mabye you could 'do it up' a little like you did with Deansburg. I looked you up on google and you seem like a well known and interesting man. Mind telling me more about yourself? ~ JFBurton

As a fierce trades union man myself, I'd say "labourer" is a fine and honourable title (regardless of what one thinks of Blair). I've got family in Deanburg, some of them buried by the side of Deanburg Road/Lowery Road; no such connections to the Jacks Creek end of the county. As to myself: more than most folks would want to know is on my user page; more can be learned by googling Google Groups (or Google Images) for "Orange Mike".--Orange Mike 19:53, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Platform (Scottish politics)

Thanks for the comment on the Scottish Socialist Party talk page on the above. Its not really a particularly distinctive use of the term in my experience and would be understood across the UK. It is probably akin to political factions, however that has somewhat negative and pejorative connotations.

In the SSP we think that debates should be held openly, that there is no "one true brand" of socialism, and recognise that people come from different traditions, have different experiences, different priorities and outlooks and those affect the "favour" of their politics, while still being identifyably socialist (/progressive/radical/left-wing/Marxist). So within the party people are encouraged to form factions/platforms with others of similiar approaches. The term "platform" is more acceptable than "faction" and comes from the idea of "sharing a platform" (ie speaking on the same issue/at the same event etc) as someone else.

I dont think that its a particularly unique concept, what is perhaps more unusual is that the SSP welcomes this kind of dissent, and platforms (generally) behave fraternally to one another, as opposed to more traditional parties where platforms/factions are highly antagonistic.

The SSP's attitude to factions is covered in the Political_faction#Effects_of_factions element of the political factions page, I'm not sure that it merits an entry of its own.Ms medusa 01:49, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

BURT

The (Ware County Health Department) has all the birth records for Waycross, I misquoted the name as Waycross Health Dept. And yes they do offer the service for a fee of $10,00 but only to family members. Rogue_Gremlin

Independent proposal for WP:CAL and WP:SOCAL tags

User Spamreporter1 has made a proposal for the tagging issue. He was not previously involved with either project before seeing this discussion, and I belive that his opinion therefore is NPOV. The suggestion is that articles that have no state-wide scope be tagged only locally. Please go to this section on the SoCal page to provide input. —ScouterSig 18:45, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Saadi

I have NO idea how that happened. Thanks for pointing that out though, it's fixed now.--Wizardman 16:00, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey!

If you ever need anything just let me know. PS. you are AWSOME. futurebird 06:06, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

University of Wisconsin

Hi there, I actually think redirecting University of Wisconsin to the system article is a better solution than a disambiguation page.Miaers 05:27, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

That's not an option. The only alternative being offered to the current Madison-centric system is the restoration of the disambiguation page. If you vote to kill the disambiguation page, as you did last time, we'll be stuck with the Madison-as-center-of-the-universe situation we have now. --Orange Mike 05:33, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

"The other Andy Porter"

I only removed it because the article about the team didn't reference him. If he comes up in Google searches, though, he probably can get on the team's article, which means the disambiguation page would need to disambiguate to the team's article... Anyways, feel free to revert me, and sorry for the slow reply. Logical2u_{Review me!} 14:11, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

RP

No problem. I am just confused as to what CRCulver's deal is. Unless I am missing something its pretty clear that only British publications would use a British accent. What do you think about RP being in the dialects navigation box? -Ravedave 05:25, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I think he's just from the "only English English is real English" school of thought. To heck with that noise; we Celts always make the language do more glorious things than the Teutons ever could! --Orange Mike 05:28, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

List of Dungeons & Dragons popular culture references links

Would you be willing to discuss the CreativeJuices link on the Talk page? Wyatt Riot 14:59, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

User:Worthadonkey

So it seems, but I thought it would be worth giving him one more chance. Blocked for a month now. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Trebor 15:46, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The Incomplete Enchanter vs. The Incompleat Enchanter

I'd like to question your reasons for the renaming of the article. I have several bibliographic references that list the title as The Incomplete Enchanter (the Laughlin and Levack de Camp bibliography and Bleiler's Checklist of Fantastic Literature). My own paperback reprint as well as the two cover scans in the article seem to agree.--Rtrace 20:08, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Reasonable question. As I have always understood it, the "Incompleat" spelling was the original, in tribute to Isaak Walton's Compleat Angler; publishers seem to have felt a compulsion to "correct" it ever since, as the two cover scans testify. The correction to "Incompleat" appears in the errata for John Clute's 1993 SF encyclopedia, for example, which used the "Incomplete" spelling at first.--Orange Mike 21:53, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. I've got Clute's Fantasy Encylopedia, but not the SF one amd while it does mention The Incompleat Enchanter as a later variant title, it doesn't go into the deatail you mention. I'm going to paste this thread into the talk page lest others ask you the same question.--Rtrace 22:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, guys, Orange Mike is wrong on this one. The correct title for the 1941 collection (and later reprints) is The Incomplete Enchanter. "Incompleat" was never used for any Harold Shea story or book! The source of the confusion is the fact that the later omnibus of The Incomplete Enchanter and The Castle of Iron was called The Compleat Enchanter (this was the book that was named in tribute to Walton, Mike). And of course the even later omnibus that combined The Incomplete Enchanter, The Castle of Iron and Wall of Serpents was called The Complete Compleat Enchanter. The title of this article needs to be reverted. BPK 04:53, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

And now has been. BPK 05:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for reverting my user talk page! :-) -Mschel 16:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

warnings?

You're being a little ext ream, i hardly consider my edit vandalism, hippyism has hits on goggle and i have heard it used by hippies myself, i suggest you calm down and stop threatening to block me for justified actions such as changing the title to a word who's root will etymologically make it mean "the teachings of a hippie". "Nonsense" is a little harsh don't ya think? Im sorry if my edit was more destructive than constructive, but it's no reason to get upset :-). Randy6767 02:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

That drastic a change of a major article (and one subjected to daily graffiti and other attacks, so that we are always having to monitor it) should not be done without consulting cooperatively with your comrades, fellow worker. You're an anarchist, you can understand that! The word "nonsense" was generate by the template I was using; but that big a change, without consultation, did seem to me to smack of vandalism. Still, assume good faith and all that, brother. The change has been reverted; feel free to argue for such a move on the Talk:Hippie page. --Orange Mike 02:28, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Not an anarchist anymore, just so ya know. Randy6767 16:26, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Hokay. I was going by your old userpage. --Orange Mike 16:48, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: Peckhams

wee! :) thx a lot, i could not find out anything more about them, even when i asked gb edwards, the editor of peckhamia. do you have a reference you could add to the article? that would be like the sugar on top ;) cheers --Sarefo 11:43, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

That new stuff is the product of long hours with regular Google, Google Book, Google Scholar, and WorldCat. I'm a freelance writer, and almost embarrassed at how much (unpaid) time I've spent on them already; but of course, they were Milwaukeeans! --Orange Mike 18:30, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikilinks (Pamela Dean)

Hi. Your edit summary when you removed a wikilink to Tam Lin (novel) from Pamela Dean says, "wikilink the first appearance of a term, and only the first, in an article". Erm, why? When I'm wikisurfing I almost never read whole articles but skim through to the subsections which interest me. If I saw a bibliography with no wikilinks then I'd assume there were no articles and surf on by. This is one of the reasons why the Manual of Style suggests sometimes re-wikilinking relevant articles in subsequent sections (see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (links)#Overlinking and underlinking: what's the best ratio?). I won't put the link back but I suggest that you might like to think about the variety of ways people use Wikipedia and reconsider the appropriate use of subsequent wikilinks within articles. :-) Random Passer-by 23:54, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the link, Random! I've been chided in the past for "excessive links" and deduced, from the tone of the chiding, the rule I put in the summary. I am duly corrected and chastised; thanks, genuinely, not only for the advice but for the helpful way in which you expressed the gentle correction. --Orange Mike 00:30, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Reasonable quantities of wikilinks are a matter of personal judgement so any two editors are rarely going to agree 100%. *cough*Does this mean you wouldn't mind if I snuck that second link back in?*cough*. I notice you've completed a college degree in the U.S. so I wanted to take this opportunity to pick your brains. I used the word "lecturers" to describe the teachers at Blackstock College in the Tam Lin (novel) article and I think that's probably an inappropriate Britishism and, if so, which word should I use to replace it? Are all/most college teachers in the U.S. called "professors" or is that only senior teachers? Random Passer-by 19:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Hello?

Uh... I'm not sure thats vandalism that was my own post and she move the discussion elsewhere. The info in the post itself was wrong so it was removed, vs incorrect info about orlady staying on her page. Again the discussion was moved elsewhere and I stand corrected in my original post so I corrected it. Please be careful before jumping to conclusions.--Lettruthreign 01:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

None of us is allowed to edit another user's page. We can add stuff; but it's not kosher to take stuff off. That made it vandalism. If something is incorrect, put information in saying so; but don't blank things that are there! --Orange Mike 03:51, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Image

Sorry about the revert. I didn't notice your edits except the photo, which is "ALL RIGHT RESERVED" as indicated from the source. It is not a free photo. The building is also terribly old. Miaers 02:11, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I went to the photographer's page, and you are right about that. However "the building is old" is no reason not to show it. I am very glad that we have some old buildings on this campus! --Orange Mike 02:15, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

You need to ask the photographer to change the license type. Otherwise it is still a copyvio. I think this photo fits into the history article better. Miaers 02:19, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

As far as we can tell, the photographer did not put the picture into our database, so it would be a copyvio (we are agreed on that). The photo is not historical, it is of a current building, and was put into the article in a place which is describing the part of campus where the picture was taken. If it were not a copyvio, this would be exactly the place for it. --Orange Mike 02:28, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Goofed-up Template Problem

I don't know how to fix the SharedIPEDU|University of Wisconsin Maddison template. The name is spelled wrong, and lacks a hyphen. It should be University of Wisconsin-Madison. --Orange Mike 18:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your question, sorry. Is this regarding one of SelketBot's edits? Please provide a link. -- Selket ^Talk 18:44, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the bot edit to User_talk:205.213.216.254 (and others). --Orange Mike 18:49, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

This has been fixed in the bot. There is no easy way to fix the old templates, but it should not make this mistake again. I have fixed User talk:205.213.216.254. If you find others, feel free to do the same. --Selket ^Talk 19:55, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Offense

Hey Mike - I appreciate you coming to my defense at Milwaukee. It seems like Miaers tends to respect you more than the rest of us, so is there anyway you can help him to understand why people get offended at some of his edits? (UW-Madison aside b/c I usually act like a jerk there - and I'm sorry about that.) Anyway, I think a lot of people are sick of the revert war taking place for such trivial issues, but I don't remember there being a serious problem before Miaers took unilateral control.

OK, I'm just rambling now. Hope you're prepping for a fun weekend. Cheers, PaddyM 20:55, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Miaers is a man with a strong ego and is (seemingly) impervious to criticism or advice. If you watch closely, you'll see that he seems to "respect" me only when I agree with him or appear as a potential ally. (And speaking of when I do agree with him, I must say, I'm no fan of the way Marquette and its graduates traditionally through the weight around in Milwaukee - especially the Three M Club politicians. His attitude on the whole MU/UWM issue may [or may not] be flavored by that.) I also suspect English is not his native language. I don't think I can get through his armor any better than you have. For example: I posted a mild criticism on his talk page earlier today, and within something like three minutes it was "archived" out of visibility! --Orange Mike 22:02, 12 March 2007 (UTC) (who probably won't do anything interesting on the 17th)

Thats fair enough (regarding Miaers). I agree that English is definitely not his first language, and I'm getting tired of being called "delutional" and a woman, but those are the breaks.

Regarding the "Three M Club", are you refering to MUHS to MU to MU Law/Business? I'm personally not a big fan of MU either; however, I think it ends up getting more respect outside of Milwaukee than it gets from Milwaukeeans. Later, PaddyM 03:13, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Yep! Kind of hard to be a political person in this town without making your peace with that crowd! And I'm not sure that M.U. is interested in showing Milwaukee respect, either. I'm angered sometimes by the mindset revealed in such antics as the bulldozers' predawn raid on Milwaukee history so M.U. could get a shiny new dorm; the busting of the union at Catholic Knights; stuff like that which shows no regard for the rest of the city. --Orange Mike 03:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Renaissance Bookstore

I have been in that store in the past. It is a great store for finding unusual books and manuscript that can hardly be located anywhere else. However, it could use some drastic organization and cataloging. Just my two cents for a better business.  :)

It may be true, but it's not relevant to Wiki. You ought to tell the owner there what you think, just like any other business. --Orange Mike 01:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't you work there anymore? You at least used to though, right? Then you probably know the owner better than I do... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rarefly45 (talk • contribs) 03:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

Very part-time, yeah; but customer feedback is always more heeded than employee suggestions. --Orange Mike 14:45, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Userpage vandalism

Not a problem, furthermore I love the hat! --Xnuala 15:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Quiet good taste is the key; once I learned to avoid that, I could find a look that worked for me! I got that hat to wear as a delegate to the 2004 Democratic National Convention; I wore a similar one when I was on Win Ben Stein's Money. --Orange Mike 15:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

book spammer

One of them is :67.188.237.124, a S.F. address.. I left a warning, . I came across the bookstore chain article while reverting his additions. One or two were good edits. He's been working on inserting Lit.minds.org, a blog. DGG 21:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

"Brush up on the culture"?

According to your user page, you weren't even born when I attended my first science fiction convention. (Helpful hint: I see you were home-schooled; but unless you're as rich as Shrub, you need to learn to spell words like "Republican"!) --Orange Mike 23:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

• And your point is what? That I have an advantage because I was home-schooled and you weren't? Obliviously you should follow the advice for real instead taking as a joke --The Matrix Prime 23:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

• • As far as "the culture" is concerned, I was simply pointing out that I am considerably better versed in science fiction, its history and traditions, than you are likely to be at your young age, and you should not presume to lecture me on one of my fields of expertise, any more than I would presume to challenge your assertions about details of the children's shows into whose articles you have clearly put a lot of sincere hard work. As far as the spelling error: I was saying that home-schooled students should be expected to conform to normal conventions of spelling, unless they do not expect to have to work for a living. I apologize if I implied that home schooling was an advantage in any way. --Orange Mike 23:54, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

• • • That's better and I can accept that, although I wasn't "lecturing" you on anything. Age does not always mean someone is better versed in something then someone younger, similar as just because some one went to public school doesn't mean they're dumber then some one who had the advantage of being home-schooled. Age and education certainly factor in, but the difference is in the person. --The Matrix Prime 00:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

• • • • It definitely came across as lecturing, so I fear I reacted to my perception. [And you really do need to brush up on your spelling, punctuation, and grammar, if you actually intend to do any professional writing (as your user page indicates you do).] --Orange Mike 00:44, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

• • • • • • Unfortunately I can’t help you there but if you are as old as you say you are I’m sure you will learn to rein that in--The Matrix Prime 19:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)