Talk:Pan-Slavic colours

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[edit] Hyperpanslavism

Poland had its colors way before panslavists, so this may be a pure coincidence. After all Flag of France is also 100% "pan-slavic".

Therefore unless the statute of the flag says something about pan-slavism expressly or this is known from the history of the creation of the flag, one better not to list them. It is a common rule of wikipedia:verifiability.

The most suspicious entries here are Poland, Sakha, Yamalia, Taimyria, "former Nenetsiya", "former Belarus".

Specifically, Poland and "former Belarus" would feel strongly against Panslavism, which for them means colonization by Russia, and in the latter case, total annihilation as nation.

Also, what the heck is "Flag of Ruthenians"? Dont' we know that the latter term requires a heavy disambiguation?

mikka (t) 17:18, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Unlike France, which is not Slavic state, Poland and Belarus are Slavic states. So, the flag of France is totally unappropriate here. You are right that Polish flag have different roots. Flags of the Russian autonomous republics and regions seems to be based on the Russian flag (but I am not sure about this). Can you explain the roots of the former Belarussian flag? Flag of the Ruthenians is a flag of ethnic Ruthenians/Rusyns. User:PANONIAN

Ok, I removed flags of France, Sakha and Poland, since it is clear that these 3 do not belong here. In fact, there is problem. Flag of Poland is older than pan-Slavic colours, but Polish flag was a base for the Czech flag. The pan-Slavic colours might not have only Russian, but also Polish roots. We maybe should return Polish flag. As for the flags of Yamalia, Taimyria, "former Nenetsiya", and "former Belarus", if you are sure that they are not based on the Russian or pan-Slavic colours, please remove them (They look pan-Slavic to me). User:PANONIAN

Here are the problems:

1. Flag of the Poland, not pan-Slavic, but maybe one of the roots for pan-Slavic colours (for sure it is one of the roots for the flag of the Czech Republic). User:PANONIAN
- Polish flag is not root for czech flag. Both polish and czech flag was first white-red. But not becouse of pan-slavism movement in 18th or 19th century, but becouse of coat-of-arms of this states. White polish eagle (czech lion) on red area. Blue triangle was added to czech (czechoslovak respectively) flag as a disctinction. One reason was that blue is "slavic", another was usage of this color in moravian and slovak coat-of-arms (other parts of czechoslovakia)

- Pan-slavism has a definite date. Poland predates it. If the statute of panslavist flag says something in the respect of commonness of polish and russian flag, then listing Poand here is OK. Otherwise it is a coincidence.mikka (t) 23:03, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
2. Flags of the Permyakia, Yamalia, Evenkia, Taymiria, and former flag of Nenetsia. All these flags look like to have been based on the Russian flag. I am not sure about this. If somebody know is this correct or not, he should write this here. User:PANONIAN
3. Former flag of the Belarus. What are the roots of this flag? Pan-Slavic or not? User:PANONIAN
- Pan-slavism has a definite date. The belarussian roots in GDL, way earlier. We don't call Soviet flag pan-slavic just because it is red. mikka (t) 23:03, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Ok, then Poland and Belarus should not be here, but what about these Russian autonomous regions? Are these flags based on Russian flag or not? User:PANONIAN

It looks like that their design, especially of Chukotka, deliberately hints to a Russian flag, and there are solid reasons to think so. So I'd say not to worry about what is left here, until serious objections arise. mikka (t) 00:43, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] France

Mikka, the article already contain this sentence: "These three colours are, symbolising freedom and revolutionary ideals, also used on the flags of many non-Slavic nations, including the United States, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and France."

So, we do not need to write that "Flag of France accidentally has the same colors, although arranged in vertical strips". Dont you agree? User:PANONIAN

Sorry, I didn't notice the sentence. In your edit comment you sould have written "rm duplicated info". mikka (t) 00:35, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

The classic red-white-blue tricolour is an allusion to the flag of the 16th-century Dutch revolution, the first revolution ever, and as such is a symbol of independance. That's why these colours were chosen for the flags of so many freedom-loving countries, including UK and US. The Flag of of the French Revolution (i.e., the Flag of France) is actually the Dutch flag with stripes arranged vertically. The Flag of Russia, which is the source of the pan-Slavic colours, was also modeled after the Dutch tricolour.

So all these flags are interconnected. Nevertheless, I would reserve the article for those flags that resulted from the 19th-century Pan-Slavism, i.e., primarily for the flags of the Balkan countries. For those states, the Pan-Slavic colours underlined their solidarity with Russia at the time when it was the only world power championing their liberation from the Ottoman yoke, in despite virulent opposition by France, Britain, etc. --Ghirlandajo 07:47, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

A slight correction: for many of the Slavic peoples at the time, the yoke was also Austro-Hungarian or Prussian. Zocky 09:13, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Unlike France, which is not Slavic state, Poland and Belarus are Slavic states. I doubt anybody in Poland places any importance of having "slavic" origins.The idea of Slavic background as something important for the state or the nation is rather a Russian concept. Panslavism in Poland is disliked(to say the least) as it was used by Russia to justify occupation of Poles by Russians. So its very doubtfull if culture in Poland connects our flag to mythical slavic colours.Perhaps some fringe groups. Molobo