Talk:Pandora
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The endnotes don't work. They seem to be out of order. --Seaj11
Removed the part about resemblance between Eve and Pandora because there was no citation for that statement. I think if we were to discuss that, it merits a larger discussion. Anybody want to take this upon themselves? --Seaj11
- What! no citation for Eve also being the first woman? --Wetman 04:29, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
- This part: "Possibly the similarities have something to do with the aggresive shift away from matricarchy, a defining feature of Indo-European invasion in Neolithic Europe." Not the part about Eve being similar to Pandora.--Seaj11 12:39, 27 October 2006
Removed "but Hope has a great deal of catching up to do" as that seems to be more of an editorial comment. --Tarpy 03:30, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
I read this article in trying to learn about Pandora for the first time, but even after several times of reading, I don't quite understand the relationship between Pandora and the box. It could of course be just me, but I wanted to mentioned here anyway, so that in case other people have the same comment, then one should consider clearifying of the article.
The description of the Pandora's Box legend indicates that she kept hope trapped inside the box, and therefore humanity still has hope, and then goes on to say that this doesn't make sense. In the version I recall hearing, the one misfortune which Pandora managed to keep trapped was foreknowledge, and this is why humanity still has hope; they don't know the future, and therefore can still dream to change it for the better. Does this jive with any source material on the actual legend? Bryan
One thing seems to be missing - the fact that only evils were in the box. No one seems to realize that hope or foreknowledge is an evil and not what most people seem to think it is.
I remember "foreknowledge" being the last evil trapped inside. If man knew our own future we would have nothing to live for or hope for, etc. -- goatasaur 08:13 Apr 2, 2003 (UTC)
The article (under 'Legend') first states that Pandora received the box from Hermes, later it mentions that she got it from Zeus. Which is true?? Quote: -Hermes, along with giving her cunning, boldness and charm, then gave Pandora a box. -Epimetheus told Pandora never to open the box she had received from Zeus.
Is Hope an evil or a benifit for mankind? In the version I read in public school (circa 1960 California) Hope was the last to fly away because it was sickly. Pandora nursed it back to health as a kind of pennance for releasing the evils. This telling raises two questions. One-why was Hope in a jar full of evils and two-why was it sick? One answer to both questions comes from realising that Hope is both good and evil. Good because it helps mankind persevere and trimuph in the face of evil and evil, because it is the thing that can move us along an ultimately useless path from which we would otherwise had the foresight to abandon. The evils beat it up because it was half good but could not kill it because it was half one of them.Bozoz 02:19, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Creation
Is it me or this is a ripoff of the creation story?
Which creation story do you mean, Mayan, Christian, Zoroastrian, Japanese, Australian Aboriginal? - Len
- It is very likely that the person above does not realize that Greek mythology is much older than Christian mythology. TCorp 16:24, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Ahem. It is very likely to me that the people above what they're doing. Anyway, it shows a similar origin, hence, if the same Story happened to everyone, wouldn't different cultures adapt it to its version of the creation story-line? For example, different people in different countries might tell the Revolutionary War in different ways, depending on who's perspective its being told from. --208.127.64.127 19:05, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Pandora and Pandora's Box
Pandora has no mythic existence apart from Pandora's box. There is no box separate from Pandora. Separating these as two articles isn't useful. Can we merge them? --Wetman 03:37, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
- I've put merge tabs on. --Wetman 05:00, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Not an idea that exactly set everyone on fire, it appears. Well, moving in the other direction, then, shall I start the article Lid of Pandora's Jar?--Wetman 04:04, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Cultural Alusions
Not sure if this belongs here, but the '80s band Orchestral Manoevres in the Dark had a song called Pandora's Box that is basically homage to the actress Louise Brooks who became a star due to the film version of Pandora's Box.
I got one too: the puzzle box from the Hellraiser movies is pretty similar to a Pandora's Box. Pinhead tries to tempt people to open the box because it will make their dreams come true ("You know where you are? You are on the door to dreams."). In fact, the box will transfer the user to the world of sadomasochistic pleasure of Pinhead and his Cenobites. A quote from the Hellraiser wiki-article: "But too late, he realizes that the Cenobites' idea of sensuality may not be perfectly aligned with that of mortals, and that he has instead condemned himself to an eternity of torture." The puzzle box from the Hellraiser series also has it's own article on Wikipedia since it is a new, and somewhat different kind of box than the Pandora's box. But if you ask me, it's pretty similar and probably inspired on the ancient tale of the Pandora's Box. After all, again it's curiosity that will do the trick, and again the box something else than what it promised. Anyway, I added this to the list of Cultural Alusions, but if anyone objects I'm sure I'll hear fromthem ;) (RagingR2 12:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC))
[edit] What was in Pandora's "box" (really "jar")
Will someone please tell me what exactly is Pandora's box?
- It's in the article. "However, one day, Pandora's curiosity got the better of her and she opened it, releasing all the misfortunes of mankind (plague, sorrow, poverty, crime, etc.). Once opened, she shut it in time to keep one thing in the box: hope ..." --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 02:23, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Although, it is by extrapolation and inference. The source text of Hesiod's Works and Days, the original source for the story, does not say what was in and released from the jar. Confer M.L. West's translation and commentary of Works and Days. Hesiod's text only says that Hope was left in the jar Pandora opened. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 06:23, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Jar vs. Box
It seems to me that this article considers what Pandora received and opened to be a box and then argues that this box may actually be a jar. We know, however, from the original source that it was a jar. Thus, in the earlier section on the legend, "box" should be changed to "jar" and the commentary should mention that jar has been mistranslated to box rather than noting that the box may really be a jar. Perhaps the article is fine as it stands, but that's what I thought on reading it. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Makeemlighter 19:43, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
- That's in the "Commentary" section that no one has bothered to clean up. Why waste time with statements attributed to "Some"?"Some interpret the tale of Pandora's Box to show that Early Greeks imagined woman to be created by the Gods as evil on the inside and beautiful on the outside in order to make men miserable. Various feminist scholars believe..." Get the drift? --Wetman 05:26, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] question on reference listed
I'm doing some research on Pandora's box, specifically the hope within as pertains to religion and mythology. In the references section at the bottom of the article the ninth reference listed is: God Of War " Pandora's Box Holding The Power To Become A God"
Unfortunately this reference is the only one not linked and I can't find any book, article, journal, essay, etc. under this title Any information on what this refers to would be wonderful! Thanks
[edit] Passion->suffering?
Under the lists of evils that were released is "Passion" though it was linked to suffering. Is it supposed to be suffering or does the original text indicate passion with intent of referring to suffering? --Forgottenlord 03:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
- The use of passio is a Christian usage. There is no mention of "passion" among the human ills released by Pandora.--Wetman 09:29, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Read at top of page someone was confused how both Zues and Hermes gave Pandora the box/jar. Hermes was the messenger god so... more then likely Zues gave it to Hermes to give to Pandora. peace robb.
[edit] Where did the "cultural allusions" section go?
Last time I checked this article there was a pretty rich list of cultural references related to Pandora and her box. Does anyone why this section was deleted? Personally I felt it was particularly useful for this article, and interesting to read too. (RagingR2 15:47, 11 January 2007 (UTC))
