Talk:Pashto language
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This page contains material from the now-redirect page "Pashtu". To see its revision history, click here.
[edit] Needs merging
This article needs to be merged somehow with the Pashto language article. I have no idea what the proper name of the article should be. -- Vardion 12:34, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)
[edit] How to pronounce the language's name
Could somebody add a bit saying how the name of this language is to be pronounced in English and in Pashto? (preferably with reference to the IPA alphabet).
Pashto is pronounced like ( pa-sh-to)
pa = pa is pronounced like in "past" or "passive" sh = sh is pronounced like in "she" or "sheet" to = to is pronounced like in 'Τau'
- Well as 'past' and 'passive' have different vowels for most dialects, and 'tau' can be [tɔː] or [taʊ], this is not helpful. The older spellings with 'Push-' clearly indicate it's [a] as in 'puck, pun', which was often rendered with the letter <u> in older English romanizations precisely because <a> would have been misread as the sound in 'passive'. The variation between '-to' and '-too' also indicates the quality of that vowel. ~Anon, 12 August 2006
[edit] response
Pronunciation in Pashto varies considerably between dialects. (See Mackenzie 1987,* especially pages 550-551. Or #Pashto Phonology below, by Imperial78.) In English: /ˈpɑʃtoʊ/. For those who don't read the International Phonetic Alphabet:
- PAHSH-toe
- "pah" like the first syllable of "Papa"
- "sh" as in "fish"
- "toe" like the name of the things on the end of your foot
- accent on the first syllable
*MacKenzie, D.N. "Pashto". In The World's Major Languages, edited by Bernard Comrie, 1990, Oxford University Press; Chapter 26, pages 547-565.
Thnidu 19:07, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
The accent should be on the final syllable in all dialects. Also, in some dialects to this day the language is called /pox'tu/, while in others it is /paṣ'to/. 82.205.191.230 18:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] language family
to what language family does Pushtu belong? Answer: To the family of Iranian languages.
- Pashto is not spoken by 70% of Afghan population. It contridcts your earlier definition of Dari language which you indicated that Dari is spoken by Tajiks Hazara, Turks and some Pashtoons. Also, in looking up Hazara, you indicated that they make up 20-30% of Afghanistan popoulation, let alone the Tajik demography make up. In all honesty, since a precise data is not avaible on the ethinc make of Afghanistan, but it is safe to say that Pashto may be spoken by rouglhy 25-35 of population of Afghanistan.
-
- Actually, the real number of Pashto speakers remains difficult to ascertain since Afghanistan has not had a census in a long time and probably won't for a while. Many of the Durrani tribe speak Dari as often as Pashto however, but still the more reliable figure is probably that 45% of Afghans speak Pashto. 25 to 35% is absurdly low when you consider that the last time they had a census in the 70s the figure was over 50%. Given the fact that 3 million Pashtuns remain in Pakistan and 100,000s in Iran, it is more likely that the figure is 45% or so pending their return if they return which would boost the figure back to over 50%. Also, since the Northern Alliance was composed of Tajiks, Hazaras, and Uzbeks one can't help but wonder if they would like to project a new figure that places Dari at a much higher percentage, although the Uzbeks would probably have no part in this. The ethnic rivalry in Afghanistan is apparent even with wikipedia as everyone wants to boost their ethnic groups numbers. 04:50, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
70% of people in Afghanistan do not speak Pashto. It is totally wrong. Only 35% use Pashto. Please correct your page. thanks
Thankxx for your nice article edit but actually more than 70% people in afghanistan speaks pashto, its only politicians view/ opinion that 45% speak pashtoo but infact if you guess it just to land of afghanistan and provinces more than 20 provinces speak only pashtoo they don't even understands DARI or other languages included the biggest afghanistan city with population ( Helmand and Kandahar), so its more likely and possible that more than 70% people speak Pashtoo.
Don't just compare kabul to all afghanistan because other provinces speak only pashtoo so as kabul more then 50% are pashtoons.
[edit] Afghan nationalism in play?
I just edited the classification of the Pashtun language to reflect modern accepted linguistic standards. It previously was highly incoherent. It said that Pashtun belonged to the 'Afghan' branch of Indo-European languages. *rolls eyes* -Eric 16:49, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
Afghanistan needs to change Pashto in order for it (Afghanistan) to recreate its sense of idenity as a nation, set apart from the Pashtuns in Pakistan who are although of the same ethnic group, ar far from being having "Afghan" traits. Afghanistan uses a Pashto script which the Pashtuns in Pakistan do not know due to the widespread use of Urdu. Seperation from their homeland (Afghanistan) have made the Pashtuns less Afghan and more Pakistani. This is very apparent in their language (many borrowed words from Urdu), their clothing, culture, traits, mannerisms, and habits. It is important at this point in time for Afghanistan to recreate its sense of identity for the sake of keeping the nation together. A new Pashto will give Afghanistan pride as it being its own language, not used in Pakistan or anywhere else. Afghanistan's Farsi is already very unique from other Farsi dialects spoken, notably in Iran or Tajikistan. Secondly, it will ease the ethnic divides. Being Afghan will thus only mean speaking Afghan Farsi or New Pashto. Their will be no need to cross borders.
Actually there is no difference between the Pashtuns in either country. A Durand line was drawn between Afghanistan and India in the late 1800's after the Afghan wars. Regardless, the Pashtuns in northwestern India were no different than the Pashtuns in Afghanistan. Even during the Partition, the Pashtuns were the same as the Afghanis. Hey, that's why they called for either a separate state or a merger with Pashtun territories in Afghanistan. Lots of Pashtuns crossed over to Pakistan during the Soviet war and for them it was like going to another part of their country, as the area and culture is the same. Today, Peshwar is a hub for Pashtun culture for both countries. So dont give me this bull crap about a difference. The dress, the language, the food, the culture, all the same. Pashtunwali is the word on both sides of the border. So dont give me this garbage about the differentiation between Pashtuns of Afghanistan and Pakistan. They are exactly the same! The people are the same. The Pashtuns here consider themselves Afghan in their culture. Afghan Historian 00:52, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Arabic script unexplicably included in History section
This Arabic script was on the page under the History heading, without explanation.
غزل سوغاتونه ستا له لوري راوړي راشي توره شپه روښانه ستوري راوړي راشي په ماښام د مخ څراغ و ماته بل کړي په غرمه د زلفو سیوري راوړي راشي ملغلرې زور وروته ورپرېږدي اوښکې خپل کور ته کمزوري راوړي راشي په سرو وینو دې لا نه ده سرپه ماته خال دې غشي تر موږ پوري راوړي راشي زه ترې وغواړم لعلونه ای "درویشه" دوی زما د غزل توري راوړي راشي
--nertzy 10:43, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
In an article in a book dealing with the World's major Languages on Pashtu I saw mention that Pashtu actually has two oblique cases, one of which is essentially a prepositional case as it only occurs after certain prepositions. It is not mentioned in this article. Could anyone comment on this af:Gebruiker:Jcwf
This is in fact true, but its use varies widely from dialect to dialect. Also, it can be plausibly argued that the case of which you speak is a suffixed postposition in many instances: "la kora (from the house) = *la kor na. In instances where the noun ends on a vowel, the full postposition is used: "la koro na (from the houses)". But also the same morphological marker can also denote a collective noun, like "1 dollar; 2 dollara; tso dollara? (how many dollars?)".
[edit] Pushtu/Pashto
If the article is called "Pushtu" then the bold word in the introduction should be spelled the same way, or vise versa. As "Pashto" is the generally-accepted Anglicized version, it should probably be used (and the article should be moved).—Kbolino
- I agree. "Pashto" is the most common spelling, followed by "Pushto". Because of this, and the fact that the article already spells it as such (as well as most of the pages which link to it), the best title for this article is probably "Pashto language". — Ливай
18:11, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Moved. —Nightstallion (?) 08:40, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Pashto Phonology
Southwest (Kandahari) is the most conservative in phonology because it retains a four way distinction with regards to these four phonemes (ts, dz, š., ž.) Pashto is a phonologically rich language with regards to consonants...Kandahari dialect: p, b, t, d, t., d., k, g, q, ?, ts, dz, č, j, f, s, z, š, ž, š., ž., x, ġ, h, l, r, r., m, n, ñ, w, j (Non-IPA)
Northeast merged: ts, dz with s, z ;š., ž. with x and ġ
Southeast merged: š., ž. with š, ž
Northwest merged: ts, dz with s, z; ġ with y
Whatever the Proto-Pashto phonemes were, Southwest must be conservative because it retains all four phonemes with no mergers. Imperial78
[edit] Pashto in india
it is written in the article that pashto is being spoken in northern parts of india by pathans.i think this information is not valid. It is mentioned that pashto is spoken in northen indian regions like rampur and pathankot. Both were pathan states before 1947.it is proved that rampur was the last region where pashto was used to be spoken (untill 1860 A.D) but is no spoke nowadays. Pathankot is in eastren punjab and lack not only pathans but any muslim population after 1947 voilences.
This information is true, though I have heard that the Pathan aristocracy of Rampur still preserves an attachment to Pashto literary forms and indeed patronizes them on occasion. Besides this, though, there are some very small communities or even individual families in India, and not only the north of the country, which do speak Pashto, remnants of migrant salesmen and workers who settled in India before, during, or after Partition in 1947. Channa.web 18:48, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Pashto and Pushto — the pronunciation of the name
This topic has appeared all over this list, so I thought I would try to consolidate what we have here and in the article. The most correct spelling of the name is پښتو, which is usually transliterated as paʂto. The first letter of the name is pe, which is always [p]. The vowel after the pe is not written as it is a short vowel. The short <a> seems to be pronounced as [ə]. The second letter is ʂin, and this causes some difficulties because it's classically a retroflex consonant, which it retains in the Qandahar variety. However, in the Quetta variety it has merged with šin to become [ʃ] (just like an English 'sh', and so often written پشتو), in the Paktiya variety it has become [ç] (like the consonant in German 'ich'), and in the Jallalabad variety it has become [x] (as in the German 'ach', and both these northern varieties can write پختو). The ʂin is vowelless, and is followed by te, which is a simple [t] in all varieties. Its vowel is marked by the final letter, waw, which represents [o] or [uː]. Therefore, the classical and Qandahari pronunciation of 'Pashto' is [pəʂto], and the other varieties differ from this only in this only in the pronunciation of the ʂin and the final vowel. I hope this is satisfactory. If anyone who knows more about the subject can add anything, please do. — Gareth Hughes 11:39, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "Indic text"
The article contains the warning boilerplate "This page contains Indic text...". The only Indic text on the page is the example in the boilerplate itself. There is Arabic-script text, which also involves rendering issues, but they are not, or not all, the same as those for Indic text. The boilerplate should be deleted or changed to a correct boilerplate. Thnidu 15:17, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Pashto is spoken by more than 75% of Afghans
Most Afghans speak Dari and Pashto...it is very rare to find an Afghan that does not speak Pashto and only speaks Dari. This is the "language" we are dealing with..."not ethnicity" of people. Most of you are confused with this. Every government leader in Afghanistan speaks Dari and Pashto...including those who are NON-Pashtuns. The same goes in Pakistan with ethnic Pashtuns...they speak Urdu and Pashto. Every Pashtun in Pakistan speaks Urdu and Pashto, some speak English as well. Almost every Afghan (regardless of their ethnics) speak both Dari and Pashto. So it's foolish to say that only 30% or so Afghans speak Pashto....because that is incorrect. In case like this...that over 70% Afghans speak both languages....it should be concluded that over 70% people in Afghanistan speak Pashto...because they do and you can't hide the fact. Afghanistan's President speaks several languages including Dari and Pashto...so what catagory would he be counted in? Dari or Pashto? User:NisarKand November 5, 2006
- Provide credible sources for your claims, and then you can edit the text. As long as you do not have any cridble sources and base your arguments on your own POV, your edits will be reverted. The Encyclopaedia Iranica says that the total number of Pashto-speakers in Afghanistan (1st + 2nd language) is not more than 50%, the CIA factbook says that Pashto is spoken by 30% as a first language. All in one, Pashto has NO "lingua franca" status in Afghanistan. Usually, people communicate in Persian ... even if a Turkmen-speaking Turkmen and a Dard-speaking Nuristani met each other, they usually switch to Persian and not to Pashto.
- Tājik 11:53, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
- I am an American who lived in Kabul from 1970 to 1971, for 14 months. Having a strong linguistic background (Urdu etc.), I learned to speak both Pashto and Farsi. Although some of the more educated Farsiwan (speakers of Farsi) spoke fairly good Pashto, I was often asked by more ordinary Kabulis to help them with something in Pashto since their command of it was quite weak. They were afraid to approach a Pashtun for such questions. Jakob37 06:21, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
I do not think "most Afghans" speak Pashto, though in contrast to Jakob37's experience, I speak only Pashto yet find that I can conduct general business in Kabul quite easily. It is true that non-Pashtun Kabuli Pashto varies greatly in its accuracy but I have found it rare for people there (at least men) to know no Pashto at all.Channa.web 18:52, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] India?
Saying "This article is within the scope of WikiProject India" implies that the Pashto language is chiefly a matter of Indian relevance. It is spoken primarily in Afghanistan and Pakistan. I think it is misleading to have that text box with the Indian flag at the top of the page. Thnidu 19:12, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] The comparative vocabulary table
I wanted to edit the table of comparative Iranian language family vocabulary, but I cannot figure out how to edit that. There are a number of errors in the Pashto column. Besides that, a few of the words represent a very specific and likely minority dialect. Here are some of the corrections which are required, with the original inaccuracy in brackets, leaving aside the dialect issues:
blood: wina [xun] bread: doḍəy or roṭəy [ - ] earth: zməka (land); naṛəy (world) [erz] fear: wera [weda] great: stər [luy (means "large")] small: kuchnai; woṛ [laz/laž (means "a little bit" or "few")] three: dre [dra]
If anyone knows how to edit the table, that would be great.Channa.web 19:12, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
- I fixed the table and now you can edit there. Whoever originally created the table has made many errors. I fixed some of the Old Persian errors. azalea_pomp
- Here is where you edit it, template:Iranian Languages make sure you are sure when you do. azalea_pomp
[edit] Convert to IPA?
The Examples section is tagged with convertIPA, but the examples are clearly in a transliteration of the Pashto script, and not in any kind of "nonstandard phonetic notation". You might as well call the Pashto script itself a "nonstandard phonetic notation", if you're going to give that name to a transliteration system. I suggest this tag be removed. Paul.w.bennett 22:37, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Hello
I would really like to learn Pashto but I could not find anyonw who talk thi language in the net. I live in Israel and there are no people here know this language. Can someone help me?
Thank you.
I live in gujranwala pakistan where there are handful of pashto speaking people from the north west frontier pakistan as well as migrants from afghanistan. From my experience pasto will be a difficult language for you to learn on internet.
[edit] Pashto
In Afghanistan I think Pashto is spoken more then 30% come ON it should be 7o% or 65% or more or it should 75% of Afghans spek both languages .
[[4:32 p.m eastern 14 March,2007]]
[edit] Edits
Please do not make edits without sources and do not remove tables, etc. Azalea_pomp —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Azalea pomp (talk • contribs) 01:15, 27 March 2007 (UTC).
