Talk:Pennsylvania Main Line

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Contents 1 Removal of towns 2 Colleges and Universities 3 Famous Main Line residents 4 Origin of Name

[edit] Removal of towns

Anonymous user 67.100.246.74 has twice removed Willistown Township, Malvern Borough, East Whiteland Township, and Charlestown Township from this article and I reverted the deletions. I know that at least Malvern is commonly considered to be a Main Line community. If you are able to provide information regarding whether or not these should be deleted and why, it would be helpful. Accurizer 15:21, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Well first off Malvern is not a township, so it does not belong. Charlestown is a stretch in it's inclusion, the main line does not even run threw the township, it not really that close to the mail line (considering that their are other townships that are closer, like East Goshen, and Upper Merion), and it really doesn't have the same "Main Line" character as the others listed, (Upper Merion is more like a Main Line township then Charlestown). As for the removal of the others i don't know, but the general unofficial consensus would give the main line ending in the Paoli/Malvern/Frazer/Exton area which would include East Whiteland and Willistown townships, and could stretch it to West Whiteland Township. Basically though an easy way to map out what the main line is, is just follow US 30 out of Philadelphia to where it intersects with US 202 west of Malvern and you have the "Main Line", U.S. parallels the RR line know as the "Main Line". I'll some of the changes. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 06:37, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I added Willistown Township, because it incorporates a substantial portion of Paoli and much of Malvern, two areas that can't possibly be in dispute as being part of the Main Line. Malvern is south of Paoli, so if we use an east-west delineation, it would be difficult to include one and not the other. The railroad line referred to in relation to the area is the Paoli Local, so it would be challenging to craft a definition not including Paoli. Malvern, with its still-existent proliferation of horse farms, a significant portion of which are summer or second homes for those who primarily reside elsewhere, could be argued to be most consistent with the Pennsylvania Railroad's initial vision of the Main Line as a vacation area.

I also deleted Exton, which simply is not part of the Main Line, except perhaps in the broad and hyperbolic sense employed by a realtor. (Realtors in the Philadelphia area will commonly include Newtown Square and King of Prussia as "Main Line" communities, which is indefensible by any definition. Boothy 343 gives a good "end" to the Main Line at the intersection of Rt 30 and Rt 202: Exton is west of the Rt 30 and Rt 202 intersection he cites.

Frazer, despite being on the east side of that 30 and 202 intersection, remains questionable for two reasons: (1) there is no train station there, which would seem to be an essential part of the history and social implications of the Main Line's Paoli Local-centered development, and (2) Every discussion of the Main Line, here and elsewhere, describes it as "upscale." Frazer has a trailer park, which is an accurate assessment of its general tone.

On the other hand, communities like Bryn Mawr, Ardmore and Garrett Hill, all indisputably Main Line communities, also contain significant working-class areas and neighborhoods of tiny, often decrepit rowhouses. I'm not expressing an opinion on Frazer since I'm not familiar with that community; I'm just pointing out that a neighborhood's not being upscale doesn't make it non-Main Line. Spikebrennan 13:49, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

On a somewhat related note, is Overbrook in or out? I've heard arguments for both sides.Spikebrennan 13:49, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

That's a very valid point about the Main Line not being universally upscale. Most people think it's all "Philadelphia Story," and the communities mentioned by Spikebrennan above have pockets as described. That shouldn't in and of itself disqualify Frazer.

I would think that Overbrook would be out, simply because it is a neighborhood in Philadelphia rather than a suburb.

There are a series of maps here that I think shed some light: http://www.lowermerionhistory.org/atlas.html

There is a 1937 map , described as a "Main Line" map, that is essentially Haverford Township, Lower Merion Township, Narberth and Radnor Township. When you check the map, it includes areas like Llanerch and Manoa that would never be described as part of the Main Line today, and areas that definitely would be (Paoli, Malvern) are noted as being available on other maps such as "Chester County." Presumably, the mapmakers didn't consider them part of the Main Line as they didn't appear on the Main Line map. This is a considerably different definition that is used today, so there is obviously some fluidity to the definition over time.

This 1937 Main Line map is congruent with an article I recall reading in the Main Line Times in the '80's, but did not retain and have been unable to verify since. It asserted that the Main Line was not named after any line of the Pennsylvania Railroad, but after the "Main Line of Demarcation," which was essentially the border between Delaware and Montgomery counties. This '37 map essentially follows that definition, because it stops to the west where Chester County starts. The contention that it was named as the area "near the Main Line of the Pennsylvania Railroad" has always been suspect to me, because any PRR history would define that line as Philadelphia to Pittsburgh, so Lancaster would be a Main Line community if one follows that definition. You never hear about the Main Line Amish, so there has to be an east-west boundary that originated somewhere independent of the railroad's geography, and the "Main Line of Demarcation" argument would provide that. If anyone can verify or refute this, it would be greatly appreciated.Meersman 17:18, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

May I suggest that we add a section to the main article entitled something like Disputes over boundaries of Main Line, with sources (such as the maps referenced above)?Spikebrennan 13:58, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Colleges and Universities

Swarthmore College is not on the Main Line -- look at a map. Izzycat 03:37, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

St. Joseph's University should be removed, it is basically in the city...not really considered part of the Main Line.

I thought about this, but about half of the campus is on the Lower Merion side of City Avenue, and the other half is in Overbrook (which by some standards is arguably Main Line, even though this point is far from settled)-- and with the sale of Episcopal Academy's campus, the center of gravity of St. Joe's will probably move even more into the Main Line.Spikebrennan

The University defines itself as being part of Philadelphia not the Suburbs.

[edit] Famous Main Line residents

I just deleted Bam Margera as a resident. Per this article , he is a resident of Pocopson Township, which is nowhere near the Main Line. If he currently lives in a Main Line community, please provide a reference and return him to the list. Thanks.

[edit] Origin of Name

The beginning of the article says it was named after the Pennsy tracks, later on, it says it was named after a water line. I know it's the Pennsy, I think we all do, but I wanted to put the contradict tag up to give the it a chance to self-resolve before I cut anything. Any comments? KristoferM 19:21, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

(Source and) cut it! 68.39.174.238 14:17, 19 December 2006 (UTC)