Talk:Poison Ivy

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Contents 1 Labels 2 Poison Ivy's birthday 3 Controversy 4 Name of article 5 Joker/Mask 6 Fanfics 7 Censoring Anon 8 Cleanup 9 Categories 9.1 Please list items that need to be cleaned up 10 Dr. Pamela Isley 11 rubber gloves? Used a weapon? 12 Crossbow 13 Image 14 Sexuality 15 Origin 16 Dr Woodrue/Ivy conflict 17 Trivia

[edit] Labels

Explain to me how she is either a serial killer or a sociopath. She has never been shown to kill because she enjoys it or feels compelled to do it, and she would not be friends with or have concern for Harley Quinn if she were a sociopath, as sociopaths are incapable of having empathy for anyone. A character with mental illness? Fine. A murderer? Yes. But let's not go overboard with labels. --Treybien 03:00, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, if she had any labels, they would be the following: eco-terrorist, murderer, and rapist.

No, that's the point of the modern writing of the character. Unlike many of batman's villians, Ivy's often written to be a zealot to her cause, but NOT a sadist villian like Freeze, Zsasz, and so on. She's a powerful person whose priorities and motivations conflict with that of human progress. She's more like Ra's Al Ghul than the Joker. Try NOT to label her with the terms above in the article without sufficient backup. She's 'mercenary' in her methodologies, and she kills to get what she wants, but her perspective is different. address it properly in the article.ThuranX 04:20, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

What I say does not contradict her being portrayed as an anti-heroine or zealot, or whatever you want to call her. But she murders. Back in during Year One, she murdered her henchmen. I really doubt that murdering her henchmen with a machine gun furthers her quest for botanical supremacy. And have you ever read the No Man's Land one-shot where she killed two men just from accidentally running into the park? Or when she killed a Gotham mob boss in Dark Victory for money? In Arkham Asylum: Living Hell, she jokes around about a man she killed by saying, "He was good in bed. The flower bed. As mulch."

And in the Long Halloween, it is implied that she slept with Bruce Wayne while he was under her control. It was obviously not consensual, so by the definition, she raped him. She mind controlled Catwoman in Hush (And if you read interviews with Jim Lee, Ivy and Catwoman were originally supposed to kiss at the end of #608, but Jim Lee said no).

And yes, her perspective is different. But that does not excuse her for her actions if she is still half human. She's partly insane, as evidenced by the Legends of the Dark Knight story Hot House and briefly in Batman & Poison Ivy: Cast Shadows.

Poison Ivy is my second favorite comic book character of all time. I think that she is amazing and a compelling character with a rich personality, but I do not lie to myself to make her something that she isn't. She has murdered. She has raped. And of course, she is slightly insane. But she is not like Joker. She is not like Two-Face. And she is no sociopath. She loved the park orphans like her own children, and she loves Harley Quinn and looks out for her. She even took a bullet for Harley once in the Harley Quinn series. Like Batman, she has an impossible mission with noble intentions. She's passionate, driven, etc. But she goes about everything the wrong way.

- Canker Blossom

Get an account. and start SIGNING YOUR COMMENTS. or use your IP. BUT SIGN.ThuranX 06:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

In one of the last Batmans she was shown picking up people at bars bringing them home to ahve them eatten by her plants, thus creating Harvest. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Floronic (talk • contribs) 20:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Poison Ivy's birthday

Does anyone know Poison Ivy's birthday? --86.132.30.100 15:48, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy

I don't recall there being any controversy concerning Ivy's skin color. And she's been portrayed as green-skinned ever since the formula fell on her in Catwoman (at least in the comics; I dont know how the other media portrays her).--DrBat 02:12, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

I know you're obviously a comics fan but other media is just as important as the comics... Elsewhere she has been alternately displayed as having both white or green skin at varying times and appearances.. --65.98.21.69 02:14, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Still, the comics is the main universe. Furthermore, I don't recall there being any real controversy over the white-green skin colors. --DrBat 05:08, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

You should've read the DC message boards then. Some people didn't even know Ivy had green skin and were confused when she appeared in Batgirl as such. Other discussions were completely dedicated to her skin color. So, it is a question that has been asked repeatedly. And her skin color has not always been consistent. On the cover of the issue of Batgirl that she was in, she had alabastor skin. On the inside she was green.

[edit] Name of article

It seems a bit, um, strange to have "Poison Ivy" to be an article on the comics character instead of the disamb page. But oh well... Jorge Stolfi 19:38, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Are there any other articles as significant as the character that have Ivy capitalized? --DrBat 23:06, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Joker/Mask

Uhm, at what point did this "break from continuity"? Clearly whoever wrote that has never read the "Harley Quinn" one-shot, the "Harley Quinn" standalone series or the recent "Harley and Ivy" miniseries. There's been lesbian subtext cropping up between these two in way more places than Joker/Mask you know...

[edit] Fanfics

I'm not a censoring anon. I'm an anon with enough edits on my IP that I don't want to get an actual account because I'd just rather not lose them. Either way, I think that my point stands. Fanfics, no matter their content, needn't be included as a link. External links are places someone can go to get further factual information about a character. I'm not trying to censor anything. That the link was to sexual fics featuring Poison Ivy doesn't matter to me nearly as much as the fact that it links to non-official, non-canon stories about the character. It simply has no place in an encyclopedia. 204.69.40.7 12:47, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Mistress Selina Kyle insists on adding a link to a fanfic page as one of the outgoing links. In response to the above, her reasoning is that "'Canon' isn't everything -& fan fiction can be just as good as published work -there's plenty of bad ones, but really good ones too. Just cos you don't have to pay to read it doesn't mean it's worse". My response to that is to say that the quality of the work is not important. As an encyclopedia Wikipedia needs to reflect the notability of its subjects in entries. Fanfics on a subject simply are not appropriate materials for a comic book character. External links should either provide a link to an official page for the subject (such as DC Comics official page for Poison Ivy, if there is one) or offer a better understanding of the subject (such as a link to a page that had a bibliography of appearances or a number of images of Poison Ivy's different looks since her introduction.) A link to a fanfic page has no more place here than a link to my 'Fifty Reasons Andrew Jackson is a Tool' webpage would on the entry for Andrew Jackson. However, if the prevailing opinion is that I am wrong, I will stop reverting her additions. (Note that this is the same person who repeatedly changed Poison Ivy's status to 'alive' because she's alive in the TV show and only 'geeks' would care about what the comic said.) 204.69.40.7 18:31, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. The fanfic is a well written piece that improves the encyclopaedic value of the article. There is no need to remove it. 02:41, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

This isn't a matter of politics. It's a matter of sense. 24.62.27.66 20:46, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Censoring Anon

I note that the anonymous IP 69.183.6.222 has removed everything referring to a potential Harley/Ivy relationship from the Harley Quinn page as well as this one, and I'm assuming they removed the link to the Poison Ivy gallery page that was here because it also refers to Harley/Ivy. I've replaced it because regardless of feelings on Harley/Ivy, it's still first and foremost a Poison Ivy gallery.

Statements in the text to a potential lesbian relationship between the two may be inappropriate without pointing toward direct in-canon references. Otherwise, it smacks a bit of original research. 24.62.27.66 02:00, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the site text is biased in favour of the relationship, but as it's an image gallery rather than a character biography or information page, I didn't think the text would be particularly important since people can draw their own conclusions from the images. Admittedly it doesn't have "the" scene that pretty much started the speculation, (which was in Batgirl Adventures #1 from Feb 1998 I think) but it does have a couple of suggestive mainstream images. Especially this one.

Page Ninteeen

Anyway, it's technically a bit more than an image gallery, but It's definitely not bad for a fansite. Plenty of reason to list it. Plus, it looks like wikipedians might have gotten a few of the images in this article from there. Ha!

Ace Class Shadow 21:00, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

As I said in my edit (when I forgot to sign in, sorry), the "Harley-Ivy" slash coupling obviously got started simply by a lot of fans wishing really hard at their TV screens. Stuff like that doesn't need to be mentioned on wiki, you'll get it in any fandom with any two characters. What does bear mentioning is that the Ivy-Harley speculation became so well known that even people writing the books began to make references and jokes about it. This is something worth noting - wiki is ideally meant to be a resource for new readers to get up to speed, and just cutting it out of the article is of no use to anyone. D1Puck1T 07:11, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

I meant 'Jan 06' in my latest edit. Oops. 204.69.40.7 12:27, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

The category 'Evil Scientists' is a pointless category. it's got a stack of fictional and nonfictional persons in it, making it a useless jumble of WIki articles ripe for POV issues. the whole thing should be removed, since a Jehovah's Witness could easily add Louis Pasteur and Jonas Salk to it. Instead revert it to Ficitonal Scientists or Evil Comic Book Scientists, or Fictional Evil Scientists. Evil Scientists calls for judgements, and WIki's POV policies preclude such. As such, it's reverted to the more accurate and more NPOV Fictional Scientists.ThuranX 17:35, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please list items that need to be cleaned up

[edit] Dr. Pamela Isley

Could someone create a Dr. Pamela Isley article because Poison Ivy once was Dr. Isley before she got her powers. 12.73.122.124 21:38, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

There's no reason to create one. If you REALLY feel the need, make it only as a redirect to this page.ThuranX 23:19, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] rubber gloves? Used a weapon?

Has Poison Ivy ever worn rubber gloves (or any type of glove) or used a weapon. If she wore rubber gloves it would weaken her plant powers and if she used a weapon she would be stronger. Does anybody know? Blsa 20:09, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

First off, this seems to be either a fanboy fact-check request, which Wikipedia is not, or it's an attempt to set up for some edit to the page based on Original Research, which is also on Wiki's no-no list. Second, given the nature of her powers, rubber gloves wouldn't mean squat. She's worn gloves before, and we've seen no effect on her powers. It's hard to believe writers would hamstring her, or 'let her hamstring herself' in this manner. Third, using a weapon would not make her stronger, nor would it make her powers stronger. If you think you'er onto some genuine salient facts for the article, research a source, cite the source, go from there.ThuranX 06:10, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually any type of glove would weaken her because she shoots plants from her hands or fingers. So it would weaken her and it is strange she never uses a weapon in combat. 67.72.98.85 15:16, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

She doesn't shoot plants from her hands. She manipulates the plants through chlorokinesis. The best example of her doing this can be found in the Fruit of the Earth story writeen by Greg Rucka that took place during No Man's Land. In that, she controls an entire tree to take Clayface down. In another comic called Batman/Poison Ivy: Cast Shadows, she brings down an entire skyscraper with vines that she was mentally controlling (with gloves on, nonetheless). And Ivy has used weapons before. She killed her henchmen with a machine gun in Shadow of the Bat: Anuual #3. She chased down the riddler with a thorny vine whip in the Detective backup Low. She has been seen using her fingernails as a weapon. And of course there is her crossbow that she seemed to abandon after she turned green.

As for the rubber gloves, the only place I can think where you would get rubber gloves is from the New Adventures of Batman, where her whole costume looked like rubber. Though, what her costume was made of in this series has never been said. Other than that, her costumes have always been made of silk, other fabrics, or plants.

SIGN YOUR COMMENTS. damn that's obnoxious. As for her costume and powers, I've yet to see her shoot vines from her fingers. She's the May Queen, not the Plant Elemental. The Floronic Man and Swamp Thing can spontaneously generate Florae from their bodies, but Ivy cannot. Regarding her costume, I'm of the opinion that this shouldn't be overly addressed. She wears different costumes at different times, from fully organic strategically hung vines to 'swimsuits' to bodystockings and leotards at times. I general 'her clothes usually gots some leaves on 'em' sort of note would be sufficent, leaving the choices of individual artists and writers alone, since each team tends to put their own on it, and instigating a Wikipedia-wide indexing of superhero costumes would crash the system, or at least clog it with amazingly stupid minutae.ThuranX 04:20, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crossbow

has she ever used a normal crossbow, or just the one mounted on her wrist? -Lordraydens 07:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

To the best of my recollection, she's used both.ThuranX 13:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image

Anyone know why this was changed? thoughts on the new image? I preferred the old one, which was taken from 'in continuity' covers, instead of the movie tie-in. ThuranX 11:40, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, but I don't like this image either. It's a great book, but lousy cover art. I'm in favor of bringing back the Brian Bolland cover. Also, the current image is really nothing but a pin-up of Ivy, but the Bolland cover embodied her personality and gave a better idea of who the character is.

--Carnyfoke 02:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)Carnyfoke

I honestly don't prefer either. The current one looks too... I dunno, she looks really sick in that one. The one before (The movie tie-in one) was just too Playboy-cover... Does anyone have like, a pic of her from the Long Halloween comics, or Dark Victory? I thought that always was an awesome look for her, and its more modren than the one right now (She just looks ill!).

-Jack Of Hearts-

How is her look from TLH or DV a modern interpretation of her? They take place at years 2-3, and Tim Sale is the only one to draw her like that. The profile image is just an accurate representation of the character's current aesthetics. Right now, the character has green skin, wild red hair, and a leaf bodice (i.e. Jim Lee). The image should be an iconic representation of the character and not depict a look that only one artist drew (like the one you just put up with the tights and the thigh-high boots). And being sickly and not quite right is part of the character's current characterization. She's poison and can make people vomit and die at touch. ;)

--Carnyfoke 15:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)Carnyfoke

Someone edited in a new image today. I'm not thrilled with cheap chestshot drawings, but it's not awful. If someone could find a better artist doing a simliar shot with more decorum, I think it'd be a good compromise. Thoughts? ThuranX 23:40, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Years 2-3? Oh. Okay, nevermind then I guess...

I'd just prefer some other picture than the current one, I dunno why. Alrighty...

-Jack Of Hearts-

Possible compromise (if one's still needed). We can just use her DCDP image by Jim Lee. The look is current and has been what most DC artists have been drawing her as. My only complaint is that this image is so over-used in her online and DC-marketed bios. http://www.dcdatabaseproject.com/wiki/index.php/Image:Poisonivyhush.jpg --Carnyfoke 16:05, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Might be a reasonable compromise, if allthe proper citation information for it's use can be provided.ThuranX 18:27, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sexuality

Until such time as her proclivities beyond her solidly established heterosexuality, and her bisexual/homosexual tendencies (as per harley quinn info) are fully documented, they should not be included. ThuranX 02:29, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

"Her relationship with Harley Quinn has always been used as a point of reference to support lesbianism, mainly due to the pinups Bruce Timm drew of the two characters hugging"

Originally the character was set up as a temptress for the batman. even her powers to attract women are only relatively recent. also, pin up and cover art isn't really evidence to support this. In the cartoon, the character was used as a friend/older sister character to harly quinn, that tells her friend she's in a bad abusive relationship. Fans often tie characters together, regardless of portrayal. In other words, mainly due to fan's imaginings, the character will probably go down this route. But I agree that it isn't concrete now, and doesn't truely match the character history.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.242.152.214 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Origin

The post-crisis Woodrue origin provided doesn't sound right. The "Woodrue impersonating LeGrande" part is inaccurate. Woodrue himself seduced Isley, as seen in the Legends of the Dark Knight story Hot House, Batman: Poison Ivy, and Shadow of the Bat Annual #3. And I don't think that "Dr." should be included in her name. She was a college student when the experiments took place and never graduated. Can someone with a little more knowledge on the character shed some light here, please? --Carnyfoke 00:48, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dr Woodrue/Ivy conflict

In a story arc of Shadow of the Bat called Leaves of Grass, Dr Wooddrue is revealed to have been decapitated by Swamp Thing's daughter, and has since become a plant/human hybrid, calling himself Floronic Man. In the story arc, he tries to create a hybrid of Ivy's DNA fused with his, and she was aware of his plans to dominate the world with marijuana.

But, much later on in the series Batman: Gotham Knights, in the story arc called Human Nature in which the children from the park begin killing themselves, Ivy discovers that Woodrue is somehow involved. When she finally meets him, she acts as if she hasn't seen him since her transformation, and he is human (Not the human/plant hybrid), but is instead an old man who faked his own death to avoid "The Division".

Am I missing something between Leaves of Grass and Human Nature that would explain his sudden reversion back to "Jason Woodrue"?

Did a little looking, and no. Lieberman just couldn't be bothered to do research.D1Puck1T 00:49, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Most people tossed this up to extremely lazy editing. A.J. Lieberman wrote the latter story and has been known to be sloppy with continuity.--71.119.29.143 22:02, 1 October 2006 (UTC)Carnyfoke

[edit] Trivia

Why was poison ivy's immunity to Joker Venom removed? It's useful information.