Talk:Portsmouth

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Portsmouth is included in the 2006 Wikipedia CD Selection, or is a candidate for inclusion in the next version. Please maintain high quality standards and, if possible, stick to GFDL-compatible images.

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This article has been rated "B" on the Wikipedia Version 1.0 quality scale.

On the project page you can find detailed guides on how to write about counties and settlements, as well as where to find statistics, references and other useful things. Additionally, the following have been identified as specific improvements this article needs:

History should be split to History of Portsmouth and cut down using Wikipedia:Sumamry style
Consider merging sport, media, music and in literature into a Culture section, along with art galleries, theatre, etc.
Consider merging shopping into economy
Economy: include info about major employers and industries, retail, unemployment trends, etc. Compare to other cities in the region, and throughout the country, and put in context of history. Statistics on tourist revenue may also be relevant.
Government: include info about Westminster representation, and consider renaming "Government and politics" in line with most other articles about UK places
Add a demographics section including e.g. population and population changes, age structure (put into context of e.g. university populations, retirement migration trents, etc), ethnic and religious groups, etc.
Education: paragraphing! Also, is it really neccesary to use subheadings for single paragraphs? Consider removing those.
Places of worship: this is almost all about history -- consider merging into the history page
Get rid of the lists! The chronology one can go on the new History of Portsmouth article; the more notable people can be spread out into the relevant sections (historical figures in history, sportsmen in sport/culture, artists in culture, etc) and turned into prose. The less notable ones can be deleted from this page altogether, but a category could be used to maintain the list.
Twin towns: turn into prose, including information about when the relationship began and what it involves -- economic and academic cooperation, exchanges, etc? Do the universities or industry also utilise these relationships?
Cite sources/references This article could pass WP:GA with references.

1 In Hampshire or not
2 Copy of Portsmouth crest
3 Synfonia
4 History
5 Spinnaker Tower
6 pompey
7 Re-order content?
8 Four boroughs
9 Phone code
10 Famous Residents
11 Sultan
12 SAVE SOME FOR ME!
13 Incorrectly licenced image
14 WW2
15 Edit wars
16 Revert tag edit war.
17 Merge

[edit] In Hampshire or not

Can we get some agreement here on the Hampshire topic, I for one *as a resident of Portsmouth* think that Portsmouth is in Hampshire.

It seems to depend on what you mean by "Hampshire". It's defined by the government isn't it? The current official boundaries seem to exclude Portsmouth.

Googling Portsmouth City Council's website http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk on its contact page gives its address as in Hampshire. -I

Customary postal addresses may stay around for a while: it doesn't prove much. Mail goes by postcodes these days, not county, so if you look up the postcode at http://www.royalmail.co.uk/ it will omit the HANTS.

Portmouth City Council is a Unitary Authority. As a consequence, it is no longer under the administrative authority of Hampshire County Council. However, Portsmouth as a geographical place does properly remain within the Ceremonial county of Hampshire. DWaterson 11:03, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copy of Portsmouth crest

Does anyone know where to get a public domain copy of Portsmouth's crest (The moon and star) ?

[edit] Synfonia

The Portsmouth Symfonia was from Portsmouth, right? // Liftarn

[edit] History

There's not much on the city past Elizabeth II - this needs more adding to.

Also, Southampton has the 'interesting people/features' list a bit more fleshed out - perhaps something liek this could be added? And Pompey's rivalry with Soton, of course...

In fact, the article doesn't mention 'pompey' at all. Quite a few things could be done in fact!

[edit] Spinnaker Tower

"Plans are afoot to build a tower called the Spinnaker Tower at Gunwharf. The much-troubled millennium project is now finally underway and due for completion in late 2004."

This needs updating. —wwoods 17:03, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] pompey

why is portsmouth referred to as pompey

Portsmouth F.C (Portsmouth Football Club), basically Pompey is a nickname for Portsmouth F.C.

Pompey is the nickname for the city, which is also applied to the football team, NOT vice versa. There are many suggested origins for the nickname, the most likely of which is that ships entering Portsmouth harbour make an entry in the ship's log 'Pom. P.' as a reference to Portsmouth Point.

[edit] Re-order content?

There doesn't seem to be any order to the content of the Portsmouth article. Should it be alphabetised?

I've ordered the content in (what I believe is) a more intuitive way. Also added a Lists section. I really want to make this article as readable as it can be. --Adam Stemp 18:41, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Four boroughs

Portsmouth is in fact a metropolitan city of almost half a million, with four boroughs: Havant, Gosport, Fareham and Waterlooville

Are any of these in the City area? Can this be qualified a bit? Is this a "Greater Portsmouth area"? Mrsteviec 18:37, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

This is complete nonsense, and needs either rewriting or deleting. There is no such thing as a "Greater Portsmouth Area" commonly recognised by any authority that I know of. One does occasionally refer to the "South Hampshire Conurbation", however this includes Southampton and the towns and villages in between. It is certainly wrong to refer to a "metropolitan city" - the City of Portsmouth council administrative area is not a Metropolitan Borough, and it definitely doesn't include Fareham, Gosport, or Havant. At best, I think this could only be amended to say that "the Portsmouth Harbour area conurbation has a total population of n. people" or somesuch. DWaterson 11:03, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Waterlooville is not in Portsmouth as far as I'm aware. But if it's going to be there than so should Leigh Park. I don't think any of us want that.--I'll bring the food 04:32, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Phone code

Minor edit war has occurred on this, 023 is not sufficient, it is even shared with Southampton!! (which is 02380). As far as I know all current Portsmouth numbers begin 02392. Hyperman 42 02:23, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to propagate the edit war further, but the code is definitely (023), which happens to also be the code for Southampton etc. 92 is the first two digits of each customer's number in Portsmouth, but does not form a part of the official code. DWaterson 15:17, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Portsmouth Area dialling code is 023 (a code it shares with Southampton). This is followed by an eight digit phone number that in Portsmouth 92******. 92 is part of the phone number, not the dialling code

OK, I see what you mean. No obvious way of clarifying the sharing of the code without extra verbiage, so I will leave things as they are. Hyperman 42 01:34, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I added the extra verbiage. Seems a bit trainspotter to clarify any further though...--I'll bring the food 04:30, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Famous Residents

Why is JAKAZiD always removed? again and again, he is releasing a friggin' single into the UK CHARTS! Why are other people on there that have done pretty much nothing, whilst JAKAZiD is constantly removed. 82.30.158.132 15:48, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sultan

I have been told the sultan of Zanzibar took refuge in Portsmouth during the Second World War. Does anybody know if this is true?

[edit] SAVE SOME FOR ME!

Hey Portsmouth: save some for me!

[edit] Incorrectly licenced image

Greetings Pompey fans. I notice that the image is not properly licenced and perhaps should be tagged for deletion as it is owned by BAE and restricted for use. I would like to propose that this image would be a reasonable sustitute and is licenced in accordance with Wikipedia policies. Do you agree? If so please feel free to place it in the article. Best wishes and thanks Des Desk1 15:12, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey - When I logged into Portsmouth, England as a non member, this was the only writing that came up on the page.

"Portsmouth is atown full of smelly pikeys who like to amake sex crime with family members!!!!! smellys skates"

I was unable to edit it out. Some one should get rid of this sort of trash.

[edit] WW2

the article seems a bit lacking on world war 2 history, which is odd given how much its linked to by WW2 articles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.26.102.218 (talk)

[edit] Edit wars

the information looks valid, are you honestly saying that you dispute Nelson set off from portsmouth Nick? James L Williams 08:49, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

The reverts were made because the edits damaged the article by removing things such as the wiki links. If you think the nelson statement is valid [which I think is - thouh a refernce is prefered] then please include it. But be careful not to lose any of the previous content. To See why it was reverted look at the difference buttons and see what was lost. LordHarris 08:55, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to work on a compromise edit that includes James' content and the lost wikilinks etc. I'm also going to spell Portsmouth with a capital "P" - something with I think you should also do, James. Waggers 09:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok, all done now. Please post comments here rather than continuing an edit war and commenting in the edit summary. I have declined James' application for page protection as it seems that a sensible compromise is possible through discussion here. Waggers 09:41, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I would draw attention to James L William's edit that I reverted (singular, not "continuous" as the user has claimed elsewhere) and note the following:

Removal of multiple valid Wikilinks in the "Secondary education" section
Change of past-tense date to clearly nonsensical future tense date

Like any conscientious editor would, I checked James L William Talk page and discovered a previous warning he had blanked (which he has now reblanked and replaced with a protection tag). I therefore called the situation as it seemed to be. As to the other material added, it may have been true, but it was unreferenced and I wasn't going to bother wasting my time seeking verification.Nick Cooper 10:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I think that's fair. User:Ctbolt has correctly added {{fact}} tags now, which I should have done whilst making the compromise edit. -- Waggers 10:12, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

...... to name a few.
Who has for some reason, either simple mischief, dislike of the city of Portsmouth England or its educational establishments or some other reason not apparent, decided to repeatedly call by one method or another for the deletion of a set of articles.

South Downs College (Portsmouth)
Mayfield School (Portsmouth)
City of Portsmouth Boys' School
The Portsmouth Grammar School
Portsmouth High School (Southsea) a subdivision of Portsmouth
St John's College (Portsmouth)
City of Portsmouth Girls' School
Priory School (Portsmouth)

Similarly this user has recently made changes to the main Portsmouth page by unlinking
Highbury College, Portsmouth College, South Downs College and Havant College Admiral Lord Nelson School, City of Portsmouth Girls' School, King Richard School, Mayfield School, Milton Cross School, Priory School, Springfield School, St Edmund's RC School, St Luke's C of E VA Secondary School and City of Portsmouth Boys' School.

In addition as, user Simon S Sumpton (since blocked) this user seems to have created diverts for
Admiral Lord Nelson School (Portsmouth)
King Richard Secondary School (Portsmouth)
Milton Cross School (Portsmouth)
Springfield School (Portsmouth)
St Edmund's RC School (Portsmouth)
St Luke's School (Portsmouth).

It might be suggested that the user is attempting by a series of guerrilla actions to use Wikipedia policies and procedures in an attempt to get administrators to remove all traces of many if not all educational establishments in the Portsmouth area.

While the standard of some of these articles is poor, their removal will not encourage those who have an interest in them to make the necessary improvements to bring them up to an acceptable level.

Deletion would also defeat the objective of the Wiki Schools Project, as the majority of articles it deals with are of this type, and more notable education establishments articles are with other projects, such as Wiki Universities Project.

Information.
ISP NTL a British ISP has a block of IP addresses from 82.0.0.0 to 82.31.255.255 with addresses 82.26.96.0 to 82.26.111.255 assigned to the NTL branch at Winchester in the county of Hampshire (the same county as Portsmouth). -- Drappel 16:44, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

82.26 is the Virgin Media IPs in Portsmouth is any Virgin media customer in the city will have an IP starting with those numbers. such as myself 82.26.107.104 06:26, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

I cannot Believe wikipedia has gotten this bad, every school is not notable niether are all the various areas of a city including defunct ones like Kingston the only one in Portsmouth that has some argument for its own article is Southsea and thats weak at best since its duplicated in this article. I am shocked and disgusted how bad wiki has got before i went to Uni i regularly edited Wiki our rule of thumb back then was if its not something you'd find in an encyclopedia don't put it in as far as i can see the Admins have simple been crushed under a wave of articles written by school students about there own school which also violates wiki policies, unless the school is Eton or Columbine its not notable 82.26.107.104 06:26, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I've just created a new account because i couldn't remember my old one, the two previous comments are both by me Notability Crusader 06:28, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, you should make sure the two articles are related before adding merge tags. The schools should go if they cannot meet notability requirements. Districts are considered notable under numerous precedents as are places noted in the Domesday book so any discusion to change this should involve the wider Wikipedia community than that on a talk page. Finally, the Portsmouth article is already 30% longer than the preferred length so any merging into the main article would be less than perfect. Nuttah68 06:46, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

OPPOSE ALL Hilsea is a seperate district of Portsmouth. Firstly the mention of the school accounts for less than a fith of the entire article. Secondly Hilsea is a seperate geographic location. Merging Hilsea would require the merge of every subdistrict and locale article in Portsmouth, which isnt either feasible or needed. Articles exist for people to contribute and build on. Unless an article fails to meet WP:N then it deserves deletion but in this case, geographical locations, villages, towns, suburbs etc are considered notable. As are schools which can establish their notability through either attempts through WP:Attribution, references, external links or through a consensus amongst other editors. In the case of City of Portsmouth Boys' School the article was nominated for AfD but was kept. I suggest that you look at school articles that have relatively little information, no references and no external links. Those are schools that would do better merged with the Portsmouth article - or a new article, with a list of all schools within Portsmouth. Finally I do not agree that admins have been crushed under a wave of school articles and as you yourself are not an admin, I think you shouldnt assume to presume their exact thoughts on a subject.LordHarris 08:03, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
COMMENT I have discovered that merge tags have been placed on every article to do with Portsmouth locations and schools. That information would triple the size of the current Portsmouth article. Firstly I think its extremely difficult to establish a consensus to merge so many articles (to see them all check the contributions of user and the i.p user above). In the case of location articles I agree with Nuttah68 and think that the merge tags should be removed immediately on all sub districts etc. As for the schools I think they each warrant special attention and perhaps the schools should be looked at for merging, one at a time. In this current mass merge state, which appears more like a guerilla action over a desire to see a majority of articles associated with Portsmouth deleted I think we would all do well to ask help from an admin to assist in this now massive merge situation LordHarris 08:12, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Oppose per reasons above - merging all these articles would result in either a loss of information, or a far-too-lengthy article. Non-notable articles should be deleted per our policies but frankly, I don't see many. The notability of schools for inclusion in Wikipedia should be subject to centralized discussion, but at the present time they'd be likely to survive AfD. Note that Notability Crusader has tagged suburbs of Southampton in a similar manner. _└ ^UkPaolo/_talk^┐ 10:25, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
OPPOSE ALL This request for a merge would be detrimental to the inclusiveness of Wikipedia and appears to be one more shot in a guerrilla war being waged by an 82.26.xxx.xxx bandit who has been attempting to cause confusion and doubt with regard to the city of Portsmouth, for reasons not currently understood. In addition to this merge request various schools have been linked back to the Portsmouth main page in an attempt to hide their existence. This is not a simple merge suggestion but an attempt to have Wikipedia eat itself. -- Drappel 11:51, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Oppose per reasons above, Southsea is a separate town. The fact the guy suggesting these merges isn't even registered speaks for itself.Cloudz679 15:01, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Strong Oppose - If this went ahead this would mean some articles which have been tagged with "high" or "mid" importance would be merged. Schools this important should have their own article, though I agree that a few of the less important mentioned school articles perhaps should be deleted or merged, though I am also concerned that doing so could make the article to long in the longrun. Camaron1 | Chris 16:57, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
I think that's a good enough concensus to now remove the merge tags. I might be persuaded that some or all of these articles should be merged into an Education in Portsmouth or Schools in Portsmouth article, but suggesting they should be merged into this one shows a complete ignorance of the way Wikipedia works, and how to write good articles about cities. Joe D (t) 21:43, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Since the consensus is that the merges to schools/districts in Southampton and Portsmouth suggested by Notability Crusader (contributions) and 82.26.107.104 (contributions) while the proposer was trying to disrupt Wikipedia to make a point, should not take place and in the absence of any other apparent removal action, I shall remove them. -- Drappel 07:34, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Looks as though this debate has been closed now, but just a quick comment should the issue arise again - strong oppose merging geographical places into this article - all places are by definition notable - and weak oppose to merging in the school per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common outcomes#Education. In any case, such a mass merger of articles should be dealt with through the AfD process, not by merger tagging. Cheers, DWaterson 21:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

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