Talk:Proletariat

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Etymology: French prolétariat, from Latin proletarius
Date: 1853

1. the lowest social or economic class of a community
   
2. the laboring class; especially : the class of industrial workers who lack their own means of production and hence sell their labor to live

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Petty Bourgeoisie and Middle Class.

• The lower middle class or the petty (petite) bourgeoisie (the bourgeoisie was sometimes called the middle class in this era), constitutes "the small manufacturer, the shopkeeper, the artisan, the peasant" (Giddens and Held, p. 24). The characteristic of this class is that it does own some property, but not sufficient to have all work done by employees or workers. Members of this class must also work in order to survive, so they have a dual existence – as (small scale) property owners and as workers. Because of this dual role, members of this class have divided interests, usually wishing to preserve private property and property rights, but with interests often opposed to those of the capitalist class. This class is split internally as well, being geographically, industrially, and politically dispersed, so that it is difficult for it to act as a class. Marx expected that this class would disappear as capitalism developed, with members moving into the bourgeoisie or into the working class, depending on whether or not they were successful. Many in this class have done this, but at the same time, this class seems to keep recreating itself in different forms.
  • Source : http://uregina.ca/~gingrich/s28f99.htm (sociology 250, Marx's Theory of Social Class and Class Structure, Sept 28 1999)

Contents 1 Merge with working class 2 George Orwell 3 Latin origin 4 Transformative Character 5 Definition

[edit] Merge with working class

I think this article should be merged with working class and turned into a redirect. As far as I know, "proletariat" is synonymous with "working class" and simply indicates the use of Marxist theory. I think that "proletariat" (or Marxist theory) could be made into a subsection of "working class" and this page could act as a redirect. Other's have suggested merging working class into social class. AdamRetchless 17:20, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

There can be quite a historical confusion. At Marx times working class meant primarily physical workers. An engineer was not a proletarian, although he didn't own means of production. Over time, the notion became more and more blurred. The same engineer from one side was a "lackey of capitalist", but from the other side he was a "proletary of mental labor". I mean what both articles are missing is evolution of these notions over time. Unfortunately I cannot provide this, only grumble :-) Mikkalai 01:03, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] George Orwell

The section on G.Orwell eventually overgrew its relevance to the topic. IMO only the first sentence must be left here. The rest must be moved elsewhere (dictatorship of the proletariat, communist state, whatever). Mikkalai 00:20, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I agree with Mikkalai on this issue. Following an episode of vandalism, I took the initiative to remove this portion of the article and will post it on the discussion page for reference.

Sophrosune (talk) 16:24, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Latin origin

While "proletariat" is, of course, nearly always used in a Marxian context in contemporary discourse, this article needs a section explaining its use in the Roman Empire. - Jersyko talk 03:48, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Transformative Character

What about the notion that the proletariat possess a unique place in society in socialist and anarchist theory? That is the proletariat possess the the ability to see past petty advantages and therefore is in the best position to lead society. Nothing in the article about this positive aspect of the class. Could maybe cite Harrington on this, as he has a democratic defense of this aspect of Marxist theory.--Edivorce 17:20, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Definition

It surprises me that the definition at the beginning of the article refers to "lower classes" and makes no reference to labour as a defining feature, save for the phrase "working class". Isn't the fact of surviving by selling one's labour more central than matters of "high" and "low"? --Rrburke 04:15, 30 September 2006 (UTC)