Talk:Public Enemy
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[edit] Overhaul
To whoever made this page beforehand, I overhauled it simply because it was no way near enough for such a culturally, and musically important group such as Public Enemy. While my page may not be perfect yet, and others can add more, I think it needed reworking. Judge for yourself
- - Knucmo 20:41 UTC
[edit] Issues raised by bneely
I am not knowledgeable about Public Enemy. After reading this page in its current form, I noticed some issues that someone more knowledgeable about the group probably would have to answer:
- (second "history" paragraph) I see the section labeled "Controversy", but the second history paragraph begins like this: "...Public Enemy were controversial yet pioneering...For instance,". Then the paragraph discusses some of the pioneering issues, while leaving the controversial issues to a separate section. I feel like the sentence saying "controversial yet pioneering" creates a reader expectation that both angles will be discussed in the paragraph.
- (second "history" paragraph) When did Public Enemy begin releasing MP3 albums? Since they pioneered this among well-known artists, adding the year of the first MP3 release would be a good data point.
- (origin of name) Is a date available for when Chuck D released this tape? It sounds like this happened before Public Enemy formed as a group, but adding a date would further reinforce that.
- Is Chuck D considered the leader of the group? What roles (vocals, DJing, writing, etc.) does each member perform?
- Information on how the group members met would be interesting too.
I'm not trying to be a pest, just trying to help improve this article. Thanks! bneely 08:24, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
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- Thanks for your suggestions. I tried to provied information in response to them where I could. I could not find a definate date on the PE single in my sources though I gave a little more information about it to clearify the nature of the single. I added what I could about the roles of the members. The book Fight the Power can be used as a source to describe how the members got together but I don't have the time right now to go through it all again to assemble a concise recounting of their coming together. Hopefully somebody can fill in the holes I've left.
[edit] Image problem
Now that Adric has "fixed the image problem" I can't discern any difference with the skin that I use. For the default skin, there is now a bit more white space around the image. Is there a problem that doesn't affect me, but that I should help articles to avoid, or is the problem only a deficiency of white space? Tim Ivorson 10:38, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Yeah well I am not sure if I really fixed the image problem but I used the standard skin and could not see the image. I changed some of the text formating. I am still. Unshore of the efects on other skins. --Adric 11:09, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- I didn't notice that. I wonder whether other articles are affected. Tim Ivorson 10:50, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Pictures of members
Where are the picture of the group members? How about small pictures next to the names in the members section or a big picture with all the members?
- Why not add some yourself. Go here to learn the syntax (anybody can do it). Try to find promo images are anything thats in the public domain to keep things nice and legal. Use the "Upload file" link to the right of this page to upload a picture. Also, when posting to a discussion board type ~~~~ at the end of you writing so your username and edit time will show. Like so: TimMony 05:10, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Influence on Rock/Rap Fusion?
The idea that the Anthrax/Public Enemy combination was the first is incorrect as Aerosmith/Run DMC did this in 1986.
04:51, 29 May 2006 (UTC) : Not to mention the Red Hot Chili Peppers/Red Hot Chili Peppers combination, which began in 1984. Or P-Funk who began sometime during the Ordovician Era :-) (User:TimothyHorrigan)
Same about other fusion Bands also found on Wikipedia like 24-7 Spyz and Mother's Finest.
Um... I'm pretty sure run-dmc made rock/rap fusion because of their rockin and their rhyming lyrics
Ice-T was doing it in 91 as well and there were any number of hardcore punk records from 86 to 90 with rock/rap. Someone needs to fix this...
[edit] "First" for mp3 albums?
I think we need some verification or citation or something that Public Enemy were the "first" to release mp3 albums, because I'm pretty sure David Bowie did it before them, and They Might Be Giants did before Bowie. If no such information can be provided, it should be changed to "among the first" or something like that. - Ugliness Man 07:53, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Changed it. If you can think of a better wording feel free.Jasontheperson 17:43, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Origin of Name
Public Enemy's lyrics and song titles make frequent reference to the Black Panther Party. My instinct tells me that "Chuck D" Ridenour was well aware that J. Edgar Hoover had declared the Panthers "Public Enemy Number One" and thus named his rap group as an homage to the Party's outlaw status within the white establishment (and not simply because he felt "persecuted in the local scene" as the article currently indicates). However, I have been unable to corroborate this; if anyone has seen a statement from a member of Public Enemy to this effect, I would appreciate seeing it. Vogelfrei 17:00, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Changes should be made to this page, under the origin of name section it says:
"Public Enemy is also the name of one of the first film noir gangster movies, a 1931 classic starring James Cagney."
This information in incorrect. Technically, Public Enemy is not film noir, it is a gangster film. And it is certainly not the first film noir. The film noir genre is widely thought to have started with John Huston's The Maltese Falcon in 1941. Public Enemy in no way has any of the elements of the film noir genre. Although film noir clearly has elements of the gangster genre.
[edit] racism
Since they are related to NOI, does that mean that they hate all white people? Professor Griff for example raps in "pawns of the game" something about the total anahilation of the white race (at least, that is what i think he meant). He was and now is again a member of the group. So what are the religious und political ideas of the group? Are they racist and/or antisemitic?
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- If you check out information on the current state of NOI, they do accept white people into their religion, although they didn't use to. This corresponded to the laws which Malcolm X discusses in his autobiography, particularly in the chapter titled "1965" which discusses how African-Americans were not allowed in white churches at that time. After the honorable Elijah Muhammad died his son changed the religion significantly. And let it be known: no Muslim can be anti-Semitic because the prophet Muhammad was himself Semitic as are almost all Arabs. Many Muslims are critical of the imperialist forms of Zionism which are popular in the West. This was well documented by the Palestinian writer/activist one time Christian Edward Said in his trilogy: Orientalism; The Question of Palestine; Covering Islam. He discusses how the imperialist forms of Zionism which have prevailed are of European origin and were aided by the English Balfour Decleration and the whole European tradition of Orientalism. Oh, and don't forget oil-interests -we need a base in the middle east. Check it out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.68.22.207 (talk) 08:30, 12 February 2007 (UTC).
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- Oh yeah, and they have recorded and performed with the heavy metal band Anthrax on many occassions. Listen to their lyrics on "Bring the Noise" and they praise several white people: Sonny Bono, Yoko Ono (okay, she's not white), etc... Teetotaler
[edit] legacy
The second paragraph has major problems. I think it is not accurate to say that because of PE's success "hip-hop was suddenly flooded with new artists that celebrated Afrocentric themes, such as Kool Moe Dee, Gang Starr, X Clan, Eric B & Rakim, Queen Latifah, the Jungle Brothers and A Tribe Called Quest." Out of that list, only the JBs and TCQ were overtly Afrocentric. Also, KMD, Eric B & Rakim's fame in the NYC rap scene came before PE really broke the surface. As I remember NYC at that time, the Afrocentric thing was everywhere, so I'm not sure its correct to credit PE with this. My opinion alone would be Original Research, but I'm going to tag this as [citation needed] to see if its the writers opinion or where it came from.
[edit] member box
why not just give the musicians alias and music role, all other info should be available on the seperate artist pages. --AlexOvShaolin 06:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Beats and Places
Made some WP:BOLD edits which turned out to be wrong. Beats and places the album was released on November 5th 2005 and the audio CD followed 28th november 2006 IntinnTalk! 16:01, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
