Talk:Rahm Emanuel

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Rahm Emanuel is part of WikiProject U.S. Congress, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to the United States Congress. You can help by editing this article. This template adds articles to Category:WikiProject U.S. Congress articles.

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[edit] Can someone add that he holds dual citizen ship (US/Israel)

Hi, can someone who is familiar with editing Wikipedia please add the information to his Personal section that Rahm holds dual citizenship (both U.S. and Israeli).

Also, the section that says he volunteered as a civilian during the Gulf War to fix brakes in Israel could be clearer. Who did he volunteer for (Israel or the U.S.) and was he in a uniform? Did he carry a firearm and if so, was it under the flag of another country?

Here is a link to a PDF of the Congressional Record also citing Nightline Transcript June 7, 2001. http://judiciary.house.gov/media/pdfs/renshon093005.pdf

I'll be brushing up on Wiki editing so if this doesn't get done I'll do it soon myself.

Thanks, Ed

I've moved this here because it is unsourced criticism, out of place in "early history", and of dubious relevance: He volunteered at an Israeli Defense Forces supply base during the Gulf War, which prompted some blogsphere speculation, never substantiated, that he might be a Mossad spy in the White House. In his first Congressional primary campaign which was a nasty battle over a prized Democratic Party safe seat, the president of the Polish American Congress, Ed Moskal — who was supporting Emanuel's main rival — claimed that Emanuel was secretly an Israeli citizen and served in the Israeli army. Both claims were denied by Emanuel. Moskal also called Emanuel a "millionaire carpetbagger who knows nothing" about "our heritage."

He does not hold dual citizenship as per http://www.ujc.org/content_display.html?ArticleID=68298 "Emanuel had served a noncombat stint as a volunteer in the Israeli army during the Gulf War, but he never held Israeli citizenship."--Wowaconia 02:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Father active in Irgun?

This comes from Christopher Bollyn, ex AFP writer. Bollyn claims to have gotten the details in an interview with Benjamin Emanuel. Chicago Tribune has him as "working in the underground" not blowing buildings up and shooting civilians. Benjamin denies gun running. [1]

The link your provided above is a dead link. The only sources that claim his father was in Irgun now available on the web are from blogs (which are unacceptable sources under wiki-standards). In your post above you state that this is denied by the Emanuel people, without a better source any claims of association to Irgun in his family must be deleted in accord with wiki-standards concerning biographies of living persons. If reliable sources can be found the information can be reposted otherwise it must be speedily deleted in accord with wikipedia's policy on slander.--Wowaconia 17:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I have included the statement "that he was also a member of "the pre-independence Israeli underground". as this was from the Washington Post which is a reliable source but this is a great distance from saying he was in irgun.--Wowaconia 17:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

"The only sources that claim his father was in Irgun now available on the web are from blogs (which are unacceptable sources under wiki-standards)" No, on a hunt for sources I discovered a report from October 2006 predating the tainted Bollyn source.

"..but this is a great distance from saying he was in irgun" Indeed it is, weasel-worded probably. I added to your inclusion stating that his Father was reportedly in the terrorist organization the Irgun, citing that to Leon Hadar.

"In your post above you state that this [Irgun membership] is denied by the Emanuel people" No, I state that Benjamin Emanual denies running guns. In the original recounting of the telephone interview I saw Benjamin Emanuel reportedly described himself to the interviewer as "a simple soldier [in the Irgun]." His denial of gun running is paraphrased: "He told me that he had never met [Menachem] Begin and had not smuggled weapons into Palestine, other news reports notwithstanding."[2]

"The link your provided above is a dead link" No, the ChicagoTribune just changed how their site operated as the error message presented to you on trying to use it indicated. Removing the detail tagged to the end of the URL provides a working link [3].

The Bollyn piece also contains various other details, date of parents marriage, previous surname/origins of father etc. However, I am more than willing to concede (before the cause is made) that this source is problematic. The clear lopsideness of Bollyns reporting is the reason why I originally posted to the talkpage of the article instead of including the detail directly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.29.229.254 (talk) 12:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC).

There is another Hadar source making the same statement in a peer reviewed journal which is a reliable source as per wiki, I added that. Hadar works for the Cato institute and several other respected orgainizations so his credentials are good. I dropped all the couching around the information as the responsability of the accuracy of this statement falls on the sources that first published it and as long as wikipedia cites the sources we are fine. I replaced the phrase "terrorist" with "militant" as this might be a POV arguement and a discussion on the nature of Irgun should take place on that page which this segment links to.--Wowaconia 16:38, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Good work on the JSTOR cite, unfortunately its largely useless to those without access to JSTOR- can you quote Hadar from the actual article? Without the relevant passage/sentence included in the article readers (missing the necessary access rights) wont be able to apraise the source. As you say the accuracy of cited statements ..falls on the sources that first published it and as long as wikipedia cites the sources we are fine. Either way it would be nice to read what Hadar wrote.

In terms of phrasing i'm not particularly intested in the editwars that have arisen so far but for what its worth the word "militant" is Weasel-worded. "Miltant" hand out leaflet, protest, rally, campaign. Paramilitaries organize under arms, follow hierarchy of rank, engage in assassination,explosives,armed insurrection/reaction. Misleading the reader for the sake of not embarassing the subject shouldnt be an aim of an encyclopedia article.

• On the word Murder|Terrorist:If JSTOR states his involvement explicitly and the word "murderer/terrorist" is applicable to his activities then the word "murderer/terrorist" should be used. The word "murderer" was already removed from the article once.[4] Calling Mr.Emanuel a "murderer" based on the counterpunch article isnt possible. The claims of his involvement in the assasination of Folke Bernadotte originate with Bollyn's telephone interview article and without access to Bollyns recording of the conversation its uncitable reliably.
• On the phrase 'militant Israeli group': A combination of wording which was removed from the article previously; "the Irgun, a radical Zionist paramilitary organization"[5] appears to be an entirely accurate description which strikes a balance between terrorist/freedom fighter polemics. The IZL article itself uses the rather clunky phrase "a clandestine militant Zionist group" which overall seems particularly generous to those who perpetrated the King David Hotel bombing amongst other atrocities. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.29.229.254 (talk) 18:17, 12 February 2007 (UTC).

I would like to think that the original wording I suggested ("a radical Zionist paramilitary group") is about as bland and encyclopedic as one could get in describing an outfit like the Irgun (almost to the point of being charitable.) As for describing the Irgun as "terrorist", although this is in many ways an appropriation designation for a group whose tactics were similar to (even arguably more extreme than) the IRA, ETA, PKK, Sendero Luminoso, etc, it's still ulimately subjective and doesn't help to illuminate what the Irgun was really about. I think it suffices to establish reference material for an affiliation that been evaded in many recent mainstream bio pieces (not to mention Rep. Emanuel's own website), leaving gentle encouragement for able and alert Wikipedia readers to explore this intriguing subject matter further. No need to gild the lily here, as it were. Whiskey Pete 00:39, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Claim that Emanuel earned $18m in three years in investment banking is unsourced

It’s certainly an extraordinary assertion—that one can earn $18 million by working in a different profession for just three years. The article should cite some supporting evidence. 216.193.37.6 06:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• Investment banking is one of the highest paid professions in existence, so this isn't "an extraordinary assertion"; it's also now sourced. Harro5 01:38, 14 January 2007 (UTC)