Talk:RKO Pictures
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
RKO Pictures is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article Milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive. | ||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||
 |
This article is within the scope of Wikipedia:WikiProject Filmmaking, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to filmmaking. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. |
| A | This article has been rated as A-Class on the assessment scale. |
[edit] GPM/European Rights
I found a good citation for the KirchMedia/German rights statement. Do you have one for the RAI/Italian rights? It's okay if it's in Italian--we can add it to the footnote I've created after the relevant sentence.
Also, we obviously don't have to specify the rights situation in every country on Earth, but it would be nice to know who controls them in France, one of the largest markets in the world for old American movies. I haven't been able to track it down. Any clues? Best, Dan—DCGeist 21:23, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for your good work on the RKO article, Dan. This might be a lead for you regarding the French rights. RKO movies are distributed on DVD by a company called Éditions Montparnasse:
http://www.editionsmontparnasse.fr/fr/S97/R89/video_a_la_demande/rko.html
Hope this helps a little.
-Jim Jmurphy56 22:45, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
-
- Thanks much, Jim. To you and any others: I'm not terribly happy about resorting to the "DVD Times" cite to support the assertion that Universal holds most of the RKO video rights in Britain. So far, the other support I've found online from this seems to derive from the Wikipedia claim (which has been up there for a while) rather than being valid, independent sources of information. If anybody has any good sources in support of the claim (or, of course, any well-sourced info that contradicts it), that'd be much appreciated. —Dan DCGeist 22:54, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Hi DCGeist, I found the information about the RKO's italian rights in a italian cinema encyclopedia, the only web page reference I found ([1]) is a brief dossier about the satellite TV written by Luigi Mattucci, president of RAI-SAT the satellite TV subsidiary of "RAI Radiotelevisione Italiana". He states .........."Perché, per parlare di RAISat, se intendessi fare una rassegna dei film americani della RKO, dovrei rimettermi all’imperscrutabile giudizio di chi ne possiede in perpetuo i diritti (nel caso specifico la Fininvest, alla quale va comunque riconosciuta la lungimiranza di averli acquistati, pensate un po’, dalla RAI)?".......... The paragraph sounds more or less: .........."Why, speaking about RAISat, if I would like to make a retrospective of the american movies of RKO I have to recover to the imperscrutabile judgment of who possesses some in perpetual the rights (in the event specific the Fininvest, to which goes however recognized the farsightedness to have it acquires them "guess a little" yes from RAI)?..........
Fininvest is the parent company of Mediaset (the TV network of Berlusconi)
I can tell you Mediaset never broadcasts the RKO movies, instead, RAI still continuously broadcasts many RKO movies and, in particular RAITRE (the third channel of RAI) regularly broadcasts two or more RKO movies on Saturday or Sunday late night. I think RAI still possesses those RKO rights.
about Leo Kirch and KirchMedia you may use ketupa.net [2]. This web site also contains some quite good pages about RKO but with some negligible error, and an RKO chronology [3]. GPM
- In France the company Ariès is the owner for some of the RKO's rights in french language.
"Editions Montparnasse" does not have any rights, it only has the mandate for the exploitation of the movies in DVD and VHS format. ref DOSSIER EM - Interview : Dans la tête des Editions Montparnasse Par Giuseppe Salza. I have a french DVD and the copyright statement for the film (not for the DVD) is "© RKO/ARIES" ciao GPM
-
- Hi, GPM. I'll divide this by section:
-
- (1) Do you have the Italian cinema encyclopedia handy? A published source is always great, and I think we need it to support that 1971 acquisition date given in our article (the Mattucci statement doesn't provide that). We can cite it just as we do the English-language texts: we need the encyclopedia's title; editor or editors' name(s), if any; location (i.e., city) of publication; publisher's name; year of publication; and relevant page number.
-
- (2) I find ketupa.net great for leads, but I don't think it's a good source to cite. Like Wikipedia, it's an encyclopedic resource that does no first-hand reporting; unlike Wikipedia, it has no standard for reporting its sources. Like you, I find errors on almost all its pages--individually negligible perhaps, but collectively too many to make it a really trustworthy reference. Again, it's a good place to start for tracking down information, but shouldn't be an end point for any claims that require citation.
-
- (3) Thanks for the clarification of the French rights situation. Let's see what we can track down about Ariès.
-
- Best, Dan —DCGeist 15:17, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
I correct the year, [RAI] acquired the RKO library rights in 1981.
-
- I found it in: "L'UNIVERSALE - La Grande Enciclopedia Tematica in collaboration with 'Le Garzantine 27 volumes' "Cinema vol.I and Cinema vol.II, copyright 2003-2004 by Garzanti Libri S.p.A., Milano. It can be found in the "Cinema vol.II page 986" and it states: "Il ricco pacchetto produttivo (negativi compresi), composto da oltre mille titoli, costruito in trenta anni di attività, è oggi di proprietà della RAI che l'ha acquisito nel 1981 per una cifra relativamente bassa."
[edit] FBO company name
There is an error in the company name of "Film Booking Office of America" the right name is: "Film Booking Offices of America". for references you can see:
I wrote the same thing in the FBO article discussion, I'm not able to make the necessary change.(GPM)--151.29.129.12 00:30, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
You're absolutely right. I've created a new article with the proper spelling; linked to it; and detailed how to verify it. An administrator can eliminate the old, improperly headed article.DCGeist 01:15, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] A good source of informations about the RKO rights and RKO library
I would like to disclose a "law case" I found. It's very interesting and important about the RKO rights (it's a gold mine of true informations). but the technical language is a little bit difficoult for me because I'm not very familiar with english. I'm sure there's someone will read the law case and will use it to improve the RKO article. Here it is the law case and the link: SALTZMAN v CIR U.S. 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals Argued: October 3, 1997 Decided: December 11, 1997 http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=2nd&navby=case&no=964195 Ciao GPM from Italy - 15:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Questioning accuracy of dating of Keith-Albee-Orpheum and Pathé acquisitions [resolved]
The published sources I have checked describe both of these acquistions as occurring later than the article currently states.
For KAO: I have found no published source that describes Kennedy and FBO having anything to do with the KAO theater chain before RCA became involved in 1928, and two sources that directly contradict an earlier date.
The Hollywood Story, by Joel W. Finler (New York: Crown, 1988): "RCA...was looking for a means of exploiting its sound patents and expertise and purchased the FBO studio in 1928. Later that year a merger with the Keith-Albee-Orpheum theatre chain was the final step in the creation of...RKO" (p.168).
The RKO Story, by Richard B. Jewell (New York: Arlington House/Crown, 1982): After RCA's acquisition of a "substantial interest" in FBO in January 1928 (p. 9), "FBO now had the economic muscle of RCA backing it up, [but] the studio remained vulnerable.... The obvious problem was its lack of theatres. Sarnoff and Kennedy discovered the solution in an affiliation between FBO and the Keith-Albee-Orpheum circuit of vaudeville houses.... In October 1928...RCA, through an equitable exchange of stock, gained control of both Keith-Albee-Orpheum and FBO, resulting in the birth of a giant $300 million corporation" (p. 10).
For Pathé: Similarly, no sources indicating its control by Kennedy, FBO, Sarnoff, RCA, or RKO before 1930 at the earliest.
The Hollywood Story: "Late in 1930 RKO had over extended itself by taking over the Pathé studio and exchange" (p. 168); "1931: The Pathé studio and exchange takeover is completed in January" (p. 170).
The RKO Story: "On 29 January, 1931, RKO assimilated the Pathé Exchange—its Culver City studio and its contract stars... The idea was to operate RKO Pathé as an autonomous unit within the corporate structure" (p. 32). --DCGeist 20:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
In order to vanish your doubts, please read the book "RKO the biggest little major of them all" written by Betty Lasky in 1984 and published by Prentice-Hall. This book is one of the best resouce about RKO Radio-Keith-Orpheum, KAO Keith-Albee-Orpheum, Pathè Exchange, RCA Radio Corporation of America and all people involved in the RKO formation. GPM from Italy - 08:40, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi, GPM. The book you mention is out of print and, amazingly, the New York Public Library owns no copy. However, I have read enough highly reliable published sources now to appreciate the cause of confusion and to understand the facts--the basics of which are now reported properly in the article. In addition to The RKO Story, an official history of the studio, my cited sources are The Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys by Doris Kearns Goodwin, one of the most respected historians in the United States, and Technology and Culture—The Film Reader by Andrew Utterson, a recent (2005), exhaustively detailed, and well sourced text.--DCGeist 23:39, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi, DCGeist I'm italian and I easily found "RKO the biggest little major of them all" used at powells.com I also have "The RKO Story", "The RKO Gals" and "The RKO Features" among others and I can teel You the book of Betty Lasky is very accurate and full of unknow details about the RKO Radio Pictures history. I think you will be able to find it fastly and easily. Ciao! GPM 09:346, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Oh, I intend to get it from an online source myself. I just know that will be a matter of a week or two and I wanted to get the basic facts in now so the dispute template could be removed. I look forward to reading her book. Thanks for directing me (and whoever else has been following this) to it.--DCGeist 15:29, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] GeneralTire and GenCorp links
For Demiurge, you removed www.generaltire.com and www.gencorp.com links but those links were added because the two companies were involved in the RKO story. I have a huge interest in all things regarding RKO. It wasn't spam, it was only for educational and informative purposes. I think the two links can remain in the article. GPM from Italy
- My mistake, I've added your changes back in. Demiurge 18:46, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Film library
I don't know where this would go, but Samuel Goldwyn Productions-produced films from the 1940's and 1950's that were merely distributed by RKO (such as The Pride of the Yankees, The Best Years of Our Lives, and The Bishop's Wife) are today owned by Goldwyn's successor company, MGM.Ranma9617 05:23, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Remarkable job
Excellent discussion of a topic that is continually misunderstood. Made a few changes, such as including the hostile takeover bid for GenCorp as an incentive for RKO General to agree to settle the FCC matter by divesting its broadcast properties (the proxies from the time,and the responses to the hostile takeover attempt of 1987, revealed the company strategy of ending the license proceedings by selling the stations and raising cash, essentially to pay the Greenmail extorted by the interests who launched the hostile takeover. GenCorp also sold off its tire business, regaining its position in technology companies. Also, the WOR legislation did not specifically name New Jersey, but was clearly aimed at New Jersey by requiring a preference for license renewal to states without VHF service. Minor quibbles on a very well-presented treatment of an article which tackles an often misunderstood situation (wish I had a nickel for every time I have seen it written that all the RKO properties had licenses 'revoked')
[edit] RKO's new future suggestion
You know what? I think RKO Pictures should be sold to Sony Pictures Entertainment so RKO can get back into theaters. King Shadeed 16:56, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree with you! RKO Pictures needs to be under a big multimedia company in order to come back in theaters, but I don't think Sony Pictures Entertainment is the best choice, because Sony controls yet many pictures company or pictures brands (Columbia, MGM, United Artists, TriStar, Orion, Sony Pictures, etcetera etcetera.....) there is no space for another glorious brand. I think a very good deal should be with Paramount (who owns the old RKO Radio Pictures studio lot in Hollywood at Gower 780). Or Warner bros. (who controls the bulk of RKO Radio Pictures movies productions).
Hey, I thought this wasn't a chat place. And although I'd love to get into this topic, Shadeed, Wikipedia just doesn't allow Wikichat. So, I just thought I'd tell you that. 71.111.215.224 21:26, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
- Very funny 71.111.215.224, this is only a discussion page! Hey, that's just like saying Warner Bros. has a lot of subsidiaries. I think SPE is a good choice. Regardless of, there's no such thing as no space for another subsidiary. King Shadeed 19:32, 9 June 2006
Shadeed, don't you remember me? I'm MegaMan. I had to leave the International Jingle Collection because of my parents. 71.111.232.40 16:22, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Rocky Horror Picture Show
RKO Radio Pictures plays a relatively prmonent role in the movie, and, I guess, in the musical, the Rocky Horror Show, as the final numbers are performed in front of a fullscreen RKO backdrop. RKO is also mentioned in the opening song, Science Fiction Double Feature. Could anyone suggest how this could be worked in to the RKO article?
Science fiction double feature
Doctor X will build a creature
See androids fighting Brad and Janet
Anne Francis stars in Forbidden Planet
Wo oh oh oh oh oh
At the late night, double feature, picture show
I wanna go
To the late night, double feature, picture show
By R.K.O.
To the late night, double feature, picture show
In the back row
To the late night, double feature, picture show
samwaltz 21:52, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Oh, good call. I really don't see it as being appropriate to the main text of the article, but at one of the spots where there's a discussion of RKO's emphasis on B-pictures, I'll place a callout to a narrative note describing just what you've detailed here. Thanks, Sam. --Best, Dan/DCGeist 21:59, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] RKO closing logo
As posted on editor AlbertSM's Talk page (DCGeist 23:24, 22 October 2006 (UTC)):
- Hi. In your recent contribution to the "RKO Pictures" article covering the matter of logos, you stated in reference to the Walt Disney productions released by RKO that "none of these films show the closing logo at the end." In contrast, this detailed online survey of RKO logos states, concerning the closing thunderbolt logo, "A 'Distributed by RKO Pictures' variant in color on a blue background appeared on some pre-1953 Walt Disney films which RKO distributed. Usually plastered [now] with a Buena Vista Distribution Co. logo, but occasionally appears on a few cartoon shorts on the Disney Treasures DVD collection." Similarly, this serious online source states, "For the Disney films, the end credit shield logo was incorporated into the overall design of the main title [as you've described] and down in the credits there would be one reading: 'Distributed by RKO Radio Pictures.'" Do you happen to have an authoritative source for your assertion?
- You similarly stated that the RKO closing logo (and opening logo, for that matter) originally appeared on "none of the films" the studio released made by Samuel Goldwyn or many of the other independent producers whose work the studio released (the Orson Welles films, of course, were RKO-Mercury coproductions). Could you explain how you are certain of this? Any citations, online or published, would be helpful. Thanks much. Best, Dan—DCGeist 21:36, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
-
- About the Disney's classic cartoons and featured films distributed by RKO Radio Pictures, Inc., I can contribute with my personal experience, (because I have a lot of RKO's DVD). The original closing logo (the triangle enclosing a thunderbolt) was always used as opening logo in Disney's movies and it was coloured and presented in various and beautiful shape ("Pinocchio", "Dumbo" and "Alice in wonderland" are three of the best examples). About the featuded films I have "Treasure Island (1950)" and it has the triangle enclosing a thunderbolt as opening logo, the background is blue and the triangle is gilded, below the triangle you can read "Distributed by RKO Radio Pictures, Inc.". Before the DVD era, when those movies were re-released in theaters by Buena Vista the RKO logos were plastered by the Buena Vista logos but the last restorations for the DVD versions restored the old RKO logos (except for Bambi and Cinderella). GPM
[edit] RKO General
This page was becoming pretty long, in part due to the stuff on RKO General. There really is enough info on it that I split it off into a separate article.Blueboy96 21:27, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Big!
My browser told me this article is 562KB. That's quite large for a WP article. Perhaps there could be a seperate article for "The Films of RKO"? A lot of that 562KB is probably movie posters. Whyaduck 05:24, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] DCGeist
Apparently, DCGeist thinks he owns this page. I am trying to add information about an important and significant film, The Runaround (1931) but instead of giving a rational reason for his refusal to allow someone besides himself to edit this page DCGeist refuses to budge on anything he doesn't approve. Apparently he thinks he owns this article. I am therefore adding a POV tag according to wikipedia policy.Zosimus Comes 23:30, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
-
- The following information was removed by DCGeist: "The Runaround" was an important filmed as it was the first film to be shot in a new process of two-strip Technicolor which was designed to remove grain. It excelled anything that had been seen up to that time. Though the content of the film was judged by critics as a failed comedy drama, "The Runaround" was widely lauded for its beautiful color and visual brilliance and technical expertise (for an example, see the review in Variety, August 11,1931).Zosimus Comes 23:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
-
-
- Yawn. As far as "ownership" goes, I have accepted on good faith your cited edit concerning the Babes in Toyland project, despite the fact that the highly reliable Los Angeles Times online archive does not evidence the article you cite, whatever pertinent word string is used. Still, we'll take it. And I'll go down to the library and check out the hard copy for myself.
- As for your primary plaint: There are two standard reference books on the history of RKO Pictures, the subject of this article. The standard Lasky history of RKO says not a word about The Runaround. The standard Jewell history/film-by-film inventory of RKO says the following on topic: "Why this minor fluff of a film was made in colour remains anybody's guess" (p. 38). The leading mutli-decade scholarly history of Hollywood as an industrial and technological enterprise is The Classical Hollywood Cinema: Film Style and Mode of Production to 1960, by David Bordwell, Janet Staiger, and Kristin Thompson. It says not a word about The Runaround. The leading decade-specific scholarly history of Hollywood as an industrial and technological enterprise is Grand Design: Hollywood as a Modern Business Enterprise, 1930–1939, written and edited by Tino Balio. It says not a word about The Runaround. Given the most pertinent reliable sources in the field, it is readily arguable that The Runaround (like the similar Fanny Foley Herself) does not merit mention in this article at all. Not a single word. That they do appear here is largely out of compromise with your insistent pushing of the topic under you former guise as AllTalking (see User talk:AllTalking and AllTalking Contributions). It is your POV that it is, by both Wikipedia and all reasonable standards, non-neutral. Tag removed. Sayonara, Zosimus.—DCGeist 07:15, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
-
