Talk:Robert Frost

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Contents 1 Ambiguous pronoun 2 Missing info 3 Bias 4 Quote 5 Re-Organisaton and mojor edit. 6 2nd picture caption 7 the out siders 8 Link 9 Robert Frost a bad person? 10 Lost Inauguration Poem 11 External Links: TDX? 12 Swedenborgian church 13 "School" 14 Possible addition to the "Pop Culture" Category 15 Protection/Semi-Protection 16 Middle name

[edit] Ambiguous pronoun

"His father was a former teacher turned newspaper man, a hard drinker, a gambler, a harsh disciplinarian; he had a passion for politics, and dabbled in them, for as long as his health allowed."

Is ambiguous as to who "he" is. It should probably be clarified, but I'm not 100% sure which the correct is. 69.120.89.71 13:43, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Missing info

This article misses the fact that Frost was brought to the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor and spent a significant amount of time there see: http://www.umich.edu/~urecord/9900/May08_00/12.htm

[edit] Bias

Greatest American poet of the 20th century? How about William Carlos Williams, Ezra Pound, T. S. Eliot (at least half-American) etc. Debatable and un-NPOV, in my view, for a first line. Started as a stub; time to change it. Mandel - May 11, 2004.

Well, it does say "in the opinion of many". It should even be easy to find some poll, or other source to support it, I would guess. Rmhermen 20:16, May 11, 2004 (UTC)

Not as easy as I guessed - most sites either presume it (like the curriculum sites where students must answer "Why was Frost America's most popular poet?") or use words like "perhaps the most popular". The one poll I found for "most popular poet" had Langston Hughes as the winner. Rmhermen 21:01, May 11, 2004 (UTC)

Popular isn't the same as greatest. I've no arguments with him as America's most popular poet (easily proven, and I think a good case), but greatest? Mandel

If he's easily proven most popular, then I think we can assume that "in the opinion of many" he is "greatest" is reasonably NPOV. Change it to "in the opinion of some" if you want, but I think that's about as much trouble as the issue is worth. --Chinasaur 01:33, May 12, 2004 (UTC)

These two terms are simply not interchangable. BTW I do not dislike Frost; I'm just trying to be accurate here. But being the most popular and being the greatest are simply not the same; and if neither proven should not be put on record. I may not like Michael Jordan, but I can grudgingly admit he is the greatest basketballer who ever lived; ditto for Maradona.

A case in point is raised in the recent American Idol. One of the finest singers got voted off, causing an uproar. One of the judges said something to the effect that: "America, choose the best singer. This is *not* a popularity contest." "Greatest" denotes a critical evaluation and comparison of the poet's intrinsic worth with others, not just a mere liking. For an encyclopedia like Wikipedia you simply can't afford to be so nonchalant. People read the first para to get an idea of the subject and if so, they may go off with a mistaken idea that Frost is regarded by academics as the greatest poet. Mandel - May 12, 2004.

It doesn't say that "Frost is regarded by academics as the greatest poet." It says that he is considered 'by many Americans [to be] the greatest poet.'" Maybe you should insert a sentence about what academics think.

Fine. But is it true he's regarded as the greatest poet by many or most lay Americans? I think most Americans who like Frost doesn't even have a strong opinion on who's the greatest 20th century poet. Not that there's anything wrong in that.

Doing a Google search: "greatest American poet" and "20th century" gives variously Eliot, Hart Crane, Frost, Wallace Stevens, Ezra Pound. Mandel

[edit] Quote

Does anyone know if the quote about liberals is for real? I've seen it attributed to Frost in a lot of places, but is this a real attribution or a fake? john k 20:42, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

It's a tricky situation. I've just modified the article based on the fact that I couldn't find the quote as it was rendered in the article anywhere except mirrors of this article, and I had an RS which gave it in a different form. However, after I'd made the change, I found a New York Times article ("Robert Frost Returns With Word of Khrushchev; Met Premier Saturday" by Philip Benjamin. New York Times, Sept 10, 1962. pg. 8) where yet a different wording is given:

"Khrushchev said he feared for us modern liberals," the 88-year-old poet said. "He said we were too liberal to fight. ...

So, two RSes with different wordings. I must admit I'm not sure how the discrepancy should be handled. -- Antaeus Feldspar 05:36, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re-Organisaton and mojor edit.

I am planning to do a major edit to this article. It leaves some facts out and could use a huge over-haul. If anyone has any comments / criticisims please post here. (this may involve re-writing parts of the article) Editing will commence this weekend. Flying Canuck 00:32, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2nd picture caption

On the page to which the second picture links, it is said that the portrait was not taken at JFK's inaugration. Indeed, Frost would be looking very young for his age if it was. Rather, the photo was used to illustrate an article on his reading at the inaugration. The picture was taken 1910-1920. Cedric du Zob 13:02, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] the out siders

robert rost had a poem quoted in the book the out siders and when jonny dies he finds the meaning of the poem ........... it means dont waist ur child hood its over befor u know it dont try to grow up so fast —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.214.209.79 (talk • contribs) .

• The poem was Nothing Gold Can Stay.--Grand Slam 7 | Talk 20:38, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Link

I removed the broken link at the bottom. I initially was fixing a typo in the title for the link then discovered that it was not there, anyway. If you have any ideas for something to replace it please do so, I'm not an expert on Frost. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 170.140.39.182 (talk • contribs) .

Note: this comment refers to this edit. --_└ ^Smith120bh/_TALK ^┐ 05:23, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Robert Frost a bad person?

I've heard from several sources that Robert Frost was a really bad person. This opinion of him is also in several novels and plays that I have read or seen, but those who mention it never go into detail about how he got this reputation. Does anyone know anything about this? I think something about this should be in the article. Academic Challenger 04:33, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

"A bad person" is a vague description. If we had specifics about what he was supposed to have done that was so bad, that might be legitimate to add, though. -- Antaeus Feldspar 05:40, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lost Inauguration Poem

Recently it was found that a Kennedy's inauguration Frost was not able to read the poem he had written for the occasion and was forced to recite a different poem from memory. The poem was thought to be lost until it was found in an unmarked envelope by the Kennedy Library. This is signifigant.

Didn't know about it, so I googled up the Washington Post clip. I think you're right, this is relevant and encyclopedic (and historical). Under fair use, I quoted both "The Gift Outright" and "Dedication", though I am not wed to the specific quotes taken from the latter poem nor what I said about either of them (NPOV/original research concerns). Any Frost scholars want to weigh in here? Expand? He's a good and important poet, and I'd like the entry to begin talking about his meter, his cadences, his subjects and their measure and scale — quoting these two poems is as good a start as any. Sandover 19:55, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External Links: TDX?

According to the wiki article about the Theta Delta Chi fraternity, Frost was a member of the fraternity. However, this is not even mentioned in this article. Therefore, I find it useless to have a link to the fraternity website in the external links. I feel it is a shameless plug. I have removed it, but if anyone thinks it belongs, feel free to revert.--E Man Speaks 22:54, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Swedenborgian church

"His mother joined the Swedenborgian church and had him baptized and circumcised in it..." indeed! She may well have attended to the latter but it has nothing to do with Swedenborgian church doctrine and, pending some documentation of this assertion I have deleted it. Masalai 06:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "School"

What school/movement of poetry did he belong to? Numbercattle

[edit] Possible addition to the "Pop Culture" Category

Robert Frost's poem "Two roads in a yellow wood" was satirized on the comic strip Get Fuzzy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.51.5.124 (talk) 00:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Protection/Semi-Protection

The page probably shouldn't be fully protected, since virtually all of the recent vandalism was from a small number of IP addresses, one or more of which is currently blocked. Semi-protection would probably be better in the future, although for now it is unimportant, since the protection expires in <3 hours.--Grand Slam 7 | Talk 20:45, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Middle name

I've included Robert Frost's middle name (Lee) in the first sentence of the article. 208.178.18.185 14:46, 15 February 2007 (UTC)