Talk:Roundel

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 Low visibility markings removed the white from surfaces.

Can someone explain/elaborate on this statement? - Hinto 00:05, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] fountain

That's one lame fountain. I guess I'll have to learn (some) SVG source format to make a better one. —Tamfang 21:42, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Are roundels round?

It seems there is some dispute about this point, so it would be good to hear other WP opinions on this question. At least one online dictionary [[1] says roundels are round, so do other shapes (stars, squares, crosses, etc.) belong in this article under "Roundel"? Jack Bethune 19:43, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, roundels are round. However, note that the Brazilian "roundel" contains a round shape. Other recently removed items do function to identify aircraft, but it is not clear that they qualify as "roundels" in any sense that I've heard the word defined. --EncycloPetey 20:30, 29 December 2006 (UTC) (Heraldry geek and Wiktionary admin)

In the strict heraldic sense, yes, but in terms of air forces, and particularly common usage, the term roundel has expanded to include insignia of different shapes other than exactly circular. Just look at two of those you have left in; the USAF and Brazillian ones. Neither is technically round. Also take a look at the roundel of the Mexican Air Force. It's not round, but it clearly follows in the same vein. If we were to exclude non-round roundels, we'd have to have a page with some unwieldy title like National military aircraft fuselage marking that no-one would think of going or linking to - see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names). Even if perhaps not strictly correct, roundel is colloquially close enough, and is certainly in use: [2],[3] and [4]. --Scott Wilson 20:39, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Can you provide an citation of the word "roundel" with this meaning? Not only would it support your view solidly, but it would be a useful addition to the content of Wiktionary's entry for that word as well. If not, then I think a separate gallery page for military aircraft insignia would be a good idea -- it might be a good idea either way, in fact. --EncycloPetey 20:51, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Other than examples of usage, I'm afraid not - believe me, I looked - though I can't find any sources that explicitly insist those on aircraft must be round, either. Hence, we should leave the non-round ones in; they obviously fall within the same 'box' as round roundels. Otherwise, there's a risk we'll just split silly hairs - the USAF roundel is not round, but is included because a major part of it is a circle. Does that mean we should include the Macedonian Air Force's alternate marking, which, according to Jane's Aircraft Recognition Guide, is identical to their flag, as it too has a circle in it? The problem I have with a totally separate page for military aircraft insignia is that it can also cover a wide range of other markings - fin flashes, serial numbers, squadron designations and so on. I'm not saying that it's a bad article to have, but we can't just redirect this page to there, as there's the heraldic definition to cater for. We should leave in non-round roundels. I've shown that, at least for some organisations, the term can be applied to non-round symbols; when people come to Wikipedia, they'll be looking at this page; not national military aircraft fuselage marking or anything else. --Scott Wilson 21:40, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

At this point, I'd say we need the opinions or research of more contributors. --EncycloPetey 22:06, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Until someone comes up with a published definition of roundel that includes shapes other than "mostly round," the examples accompanying this definition should match the article's own definition. Jack Bethune 15:25, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Both Germany and the U.S.S.R. used roundels that were not even close to round. The Germans used a Maltese Cross and the Ruskies used the Red Star. L0b0t 15:32, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

No they shouldn't, at least not in this case, because that would be Wikipedia proscribing a particular point of view. As per [5] - a verifiable, reliable source - that logo is a roundel, and hence is valid for inclusion in this article. --Scott Wilson 15:33, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

My fancy book about flags (ISBN 0070590931 Flags: Through The Ages And Across The World by Dr. Whitney Smith) defines roundel as "An emblem of nationality employed on military aircraft and air force flags, generally consisting of concentric rings of different colours." Then the book gives several examples that are square (Polond, Turkey, Honduras), Star (U.S.S.R.), Shield (Chile), Cross (Fed. Rep. of Germany), and Nepal which is 2 triangles on top of eachother. L0b0t 15:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Citation added, non-round roundels replaced. L0b0t 16:05, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

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Am I the only one who finds it odd that the RAF paints big targets onto the sides of their aircraft? ;) 70.20.136.170 01:03, 22 February 2007 (UTC)