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Talk:Santa Claus

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A Wikipedian removed Santa Claus from the good article list. There are suggestions below for improving areas to satisfy the good article criteria. Once the objections are addressed, renominate the article as a good article. If you disagree with the objections, you can seek a review.
Removal date: 10 November 2006
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I just noted an error in the page: "Nikolaus" is not celebrated on December 5th, but on December 6th. I can only tell that for sure for Germany, but I am pretty sure, that other European Countries celebrate on Dec 6th as well. The Kids are placing a boot outside their room at the evening of December 5th, cause it they believe, that the "Nikolaus" (or "St. Nikolaus", but "St." is not used in general) comes during the night. In the morning of Dec 6th, the kids find their boots filled with stuff (chocolate, maybe cookies and sometimes a small present). Though the boots are placed on Dec 5th, the "Nikolaus" day is on Dec 6th. 85.177.209.78 13:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Santa Claus is an eminent character in the hearts and minds of millions of children and adults around the world who believe in him.

I find that statement to be really ugly. --Taraborn 11:13, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

If children were reading this article, they might loose faith, and I for one believe in Santa

I think this article should be handled much like the article on God. The fact is that some people believe in him and others do not, and this article should be written in a way so as not to offend either sensibility. Right now, this article is a complete mess. --DDG 21:11, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Some people believe all sorts and there has to be a limit to our sensitivity. The article on the Queen of England does not mention the possibility that she is a lizard for instance. The vast majority of Santa Claus believers are under the age of 10 and they could find far worse on the internet than a truthful Santa Claus article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.38.7.224 (talk) 17:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC).
I agree. This is an encyclopedia. It is not our job to protect children's fantasies, and no sources must be cited to say that Santa does not exist because of the common knowledge policy. We should no more be vague as to the existence of Santa than we should be as to the existence of unicorns. Zelmerszoetrop 09:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Still, it never hurts to employ a little tact. Barbarossa359 14:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Agree with barberossa. Replacing "fictional" with "mythological"/"legendary" and other small changes would avoid upsetting young kids without affecting the accuracy of the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Spoofer25 (talkcontribs) 05:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC).
Wikipedia is not censored for the protection of minors. Period. OhNoitsJamie Talk 15:28, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Biography of Living Persons???

Why on *earth* is that caveat at the top of the talk page? Santa is, as mentioned in the article, a mythical figure, not a living person. I will point out that that is not on the pages of Mrs. Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, or even God (the latter of which I do beleive in, and do believe is real, and even I'd complain if the biography of living persons template were on the God page). If I remember, I'll remove it soon unless it's explained why it's there?? --Canuckguy 02:59, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Eh, the real problem with it is that Santa's not a living person. He's a living elf. CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 03:27, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
But if you believe in santa he's a living person. it's pov to say there's no santa and thuis not a living person. LOL! Christmasgirl

[edit] Uh, can we change the image please?

Um, has anyone else noticed that that main picture of Santa looks, um, psychotic? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 11:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

It's nice, in my opinion. Or do you like a painted one? Appleworm 16:21, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Intro adjectives

"traditional mythological holiday character" That's three adjectives. Way too wordy.

The article makes mythological clear by diving straigt into a discussion of origins in folk takes. I've removed mythological but that is being removed by a sysop that is reverting everything I do. Removing the word isn't censorship that Santa is a folk take. It is simply more readable. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Doin' it for the shorties (talkcontribs).

First of all, I haven't reverted "everything" you do; I've reverted edits that violate policy, mostly edits that violate Wikipedia's policy on censorship. "Mythological" implies "traditional"; if you want to limit the adjectives, "mythological" is more succinct. OhNoitsJamie Talk 21:54, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I've changed "traditional" back to "fictional," as fictional is more accurate; it's also commonly used in media; see [1]. OhNoitsJamie Talk 22:28, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Multiple listings at dictionary.com refer to him as "legendary" which is more succinct and accurate than fictional (which could imply that the figure arose from literature). "Legendary" is more accurate than "traditional." Once again, Wikipedia is not censored for the protection of minors. If you're allowing your young child to read Wikipedia, they're going to learn (and see) a lot more than just Santa Claus. OhNoitsJamie Talk 00:20, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

It now says "legendary." The wikilink for this word says in the intro "includes no happenings that are outside the realm of 'possibility'". Santa Claus, living at the North Pole with his elves and flying reindeer and their glowing noses, who goes around giving gifts to hundreds of millions of children globally within a few hours of darkness is not within the realm of possibility. Santa is not real and no rational person believes he is real - though the traditional legend around St Nicholas is real, that is an origination for this unreal character.

I am changing it back to traditional, with a link to tradition. That page has a better description befitting Santa, "beliefs or customs taught by one generation to the next" "set of customs or practices. For example, we can speak of Christmas traditions" "tradition is a story or a custom that is memorized and passed down from generation to generation"

Santa is a traditional story told to children, not a potentially true legend of the past.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Doin' it for the shorties (talkcontribs).

Your edit history makes it pretty clear that your primary motivation is to "protect" children who might read these pages. Wikipedia is not censored for the protection of minors or for any other reason. "Santa" is not a custom; Santa Claus is a legendary/fictional/mythological figure, period. OhNoitsJamie Talk 19:45, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Please do not prescribe motives. I am not censoring anything. You aren't nice.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Doin' it for the shorties (talkcontribs).

[edit] Request for third opinion

I've posted a request for a third opinion at Wikipedia:Third_opinion#Active_disagreements.

Statement Shortly after creating an account, Doin' it for the shorties (talk contribs) began what I believe is a campaign to censor the opening paragraph of various articles related to mythical characters (i.e., Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, and Easter Bunny. Note that user also created a redirect of Shorties to Child, one slang meaning of that word. Specifically, Doin' it for the shorties (talk contribs) has changed adjectives such as "mythological," "fictional," or "legendary" to "traditional." It's my belief that such changes amount to censorship, and that "legendary" or "mythological" is more succinct and accurate. Discussion on talk pages for the articles has failed to reach a consensus. Third-party opinions are requested. OhNoitsJamie Talk 17:08, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

In reply to the WP:3O request: Doin' it for the shorties' edit history, that bit about the redirect to the article Child, combined with the user name make it clear, that this editor is pushing an agenda and I will have to agree with OhNoitsJamie's censorship concerns. I'd like to add that repeated, uncivil edit summaries and talk page comments on Doin' it for the shorties' part did little to make me consider an alternating view of the situation.

My two cents on the wording discussion in general: I'd consider choosing "mythological" over "legendary" as the latter can also also be applied to real-life people and occurrences (along the lines of "awe-inspiring"). - Cyrus XIII 17:33, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

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