Talk:Saul the King

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[edit] first king of Isreal

Does anyone know why the first king of the united tribes of Isreal was chosen from the tribe of Benjamin. The twelve son of jacob (Isreal) and not from the tribe of Reuben. Jacob's First son?

I beleave he was either chosen by lot, or becasue he was very tall (not goliath all) and stood out from the crowd when samual picked him

Nah, that's not it. I was there, it was because he had flowing dark blonde tresses like Angelina Jolie.

[edit] Nativity

User:FDuffy appears to have identified a single source for claims that e.g. "many" scholars believe that Samuel in the story of Hannah (Bible) really refers to Saul. The source is identified in the King Saul article as the personal web site of Rabbi Moshe Reiss, [1], a self-published source. Per WP:RS,

A self-published source is a published source that has not been subject to any form of independent fact-checking, or where no one stands between the writer and the act of publication. It includes personal websites, and books published by vanity presses. Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, and then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources.

None of the exceptions to self-published sources (e.g. by someone known to be highly regarded in a field) appear to apply here. Accordingly, it appears that this content is not reliably sourced and should be deleted. The claim that "many" scholars hold this view appears particularly unevidenced. --Shirahadasha 13:19, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I should warn you that Francis is probably going to mention, as he did when I challenged this theory on Samuel, that some American Bible translation even mentions this theory in the footnote for Samuel - see Samuel. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 13:25, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I've moved the material here:

Many scholars of Hebrew, however, find Samuel (literally name of God) an odd name to be explained by this etymology; the traditional translation heard of God (i.e. God heard) requires a linguistically awkward rendering, as heard of God is actually Shamael; Saul, on the other hand, would have fit the explanation near-perfectly, since the Hebrew term used for asked is sha'ul (in a similar way to there was a young lady from Bude, who went for a swim in the ... ending with lake would be less plausible than it ending with nude).

Many Biblical scholars therefore think that the text originally spoke of Saul as being the child of Hannah that she dedicated to God, and brought up in God's tabernacle; scholars think that a later scribe censored the narrative (by swapping Saul's name for Samuel's) due to the religious sensibilities that would have been offended by the latterly negative figure of Saul having been divinely appointed and raised. The Song of Hannah, a poem interrupting the prose text at this point, supposedly being Hannah's response to the birth of her son, is according to textual scholars more realistically a song of praise directed towards a monarch, and hence more likely to have been inserted into a narrative about the birth of a future king (Saul) than of a prophet (Samuel).

--Shirahadasha 13:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

That website is not my source, and it is quite disingenuous to claim that my source is the website. I have not even seen that Rabbi's name, let alone his website, until reading this. My source is the Jewish Encyclopedia. You can also see it for example, in the footnote of the New American Bible (a fairly significant translation) - (footnote 2) --User talk:FDuffy 14:15, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I would make a suggestion to change the beginning part of "many biblical scholars" to "some Talmudic Scholars" I think that this would be a more appropriate description, as many people see the bible as the Old and New Testament, and if the suggestion of Saul being in fact Samuel coming from the Jewish Encyclopedia and this rabbi, I think the description of Talmudic scholars would be more appropriate. Instead of throwing all of the Jewish, Christian and Islamic theologians in one category of belief, which is actually quite a rare and not very solid belief that all three religions carry. --User talk:reubendevries 10:05, 27 Novemeber 2006 (UTC)