Talk:Schutzstaffel

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SS now redirects to Schutzstaffel based on the support votes above - this discussion is now closed. violet/riga (t) 20:32, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Talk:Schutzstaffel/Archive 1
• Talk:Schutzstaffel/Archive 2

Contents 1 The SS neither "absorbed" nor controled the German police 2 Waffen-SS - keep it short 3 Persecution of Afro-Germans 4 Trivia 5 Serbs and Albanians 6 Rank deletions on Rudolf Höß 7 Postwar persecution 8 Hauptamt Volksdeutsche Mittelstelle

[edit] The SS neither "absorbed" nor controled the German police

See subpage: Talk:Schutzstaffel/The SS neither "absorbed" nor controlled the German police

Yes they did they controlled the Gestapo!

[edit] Waffen-SS - keep it short

The creation of the foreign legions outside Germany was for the most part the SS' desperate attempt to compensate for the human losses the Waffen-SS suffered in the course of the war. Since the concept of conscripting non-Germans violates the basic principle of racial purity Himmler has set for the SS forces, but since Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium (and especially Flanders) and Holland are nordic Germanic lands they don't violate the racial purity principle of SS-Reichsführer Heinrich Himmler .As such the phenomenon of foreign armed forces within the SS structure should be explained in the context of the war, and there isn't enough room in the SS article to do this. I suggest the whole thing is moved to the foreign legions section of the Waffen-SS or a new article is created where all of the foreign units could be listed and detailed.

[edit] Persecution of Afro-Germans

The reference in the Future visions section to Nazi plans for the extermination of "blacks" has been objected to on the ground that this is "ridiculous" since there were none in Germany in the Nazi period (see Page History].) The presence of Germans of wholly or partly African descent in the 1930s and 1940s and the measures of persecution the Nazi regime employed against them can be documented. For example,

Delroy Constantine-Simms Review of ‘Hitler's Forgotten Victims’ (TV documentary, 1997) by David Okuefuna and Moise Shewa

Whether they were "as much victims of Hitler's terror as [the Jews] were" is another matter.[1]

Also objecting to Stefan 2's reference to Nazi plans to exterminate blacks and "Orientals" on the ground that there were none in Germany doesn't make much sense anyway since most of the Jews killed in the Holocaust were outside Nazi controlled territory on the 1 September 1939 and only subsequently came within their power. Todowd 15:00, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Right, but until that time when war broke out in 39, it was the conviction of a lot of people (not only in Germany, also in many other countries), that the Jews were some kind of a burden or even danger for the people and countries, they live in, just as gipsies like the Sinti and Roma for example. This superstition was not invented by the nazis, it allready existed since medieval times and was only perfected by the german propaganda machine to have an opponent, the people got to be saved before. With that belief in the peoples mind combined with hate and fear, they were able to make more "hawk" politic decitions which seemed logical and were accepted by the people like for example it happend in the "war against terror" campaign. When they reached the ultimate power of dictatorship, there was no need for any further opponents but the propaganda worked so well that it couldn´t get stopped even if the wanted to. The plan of the "extermination of all jews" was total ridicolous in itself because it could have never been realised cause you can only exterminate those people who are in your "area of control". Germany had no real interest in colonies and therefore no possibility to exterminate the black people, so i heavily doubt that there ever existed such a plan to exterminate the black people. It was all about the "Living space in the east". There were big differences in the racial thinking of that age for example between those, who were a parasite and threat (and had to be exterminated in the radical nationalists mind) or just sub-human but maybe useful. The British nationalists thought kind similar about their colonies and that people, if you think about india for example. If Nazi-Germany had planned to exterminate all sub-human life, they would have killed a lot more people in east Europe because slavic people were also seen as sub-human. To make it short: This plan seems ridicolous and i doubt heavily, that it ever existed.

[edit] Trivia

The Trivia entry about the crossing of the runes forming a swastika should probably be removed. There is no evidence that the insignia was chosen for this reason. There isn't even much relevance. It wouldn't form a perfect swastika...and is more of afterthought observation than trivia. --Coplan 15:48, 23 October 2006 (UTC) ¨

From some of the reading many years ago, it has even been suggested that the Nazi party had an intense interest in some Indigenous cultures, esp Native American and Tibetan/Bhuddist, and that the swastika has been derived from these cultures.. just a thought for further investigation. The swastika was also prevelant among the Aryan culture, which was a fair skinned subroot of the hindi peoples which was one of the lineages of the Bhudda. That has been my understanding, correct me if I am wrong.. or at least partly wrong. please refer to this link within Wiki itself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika Koldaussie 05:55, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I've heard the SS never used "Herr" before a rank as was/is normally done in the German military when not using a surname, eg. "Zu Befehl Herr Hauptmann" would simply be "Zu Befehl Hauptsturmfuehrer" (the rank differing for the SS of course). Can anyone confirm this? D Boland 00:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

According to Maik Kopleck's guide to Berlin under Nazi rule, "Berlin 1933-1945", the swastika was also a Germanic folk art symbol representing Thor's hammer. At the beginning of the 19th century, it was used by the Gymnastics Movement to expressits ties with the ordinary citizens of a Germany divided into countless states and ruled by the aristocracy. By the 1920s, members of the extreme right-wing Freikorps carried the symbol on their helmets, giving it a nationalistic and anti-Semetic meaning.~~117th~~

[edit] Serbs and Albanians

Claim that "the Kosovo Albanians were likely motivated by the chance to fight against the Serbians, who oppressed them for centuries" is not true. Kosovo came under Serbian rule in 1912, and Serbia gained its independece from Turkey in 1878. In Otoman empire Serbs, who are Christians, certainly had no chance to oppress Albanians, predominantly Muslim.

[edit] Rank deletions on Rudolf Höß

Everyone please visit the article on Rudolf Höß, there is a user who is blanking the section on his dates of rank and awards and decorations, saying that to hve them in ana rticle "validates a criminal organization". Clearly not a good reason to blank an entire section as that sounds like some personal feelings at work. -Husnock 13:09, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

User is also removing large section from Reinhard Heydrich. As I dont want to get into an edit war, other editors are needed to review the situation. -Husnock 14:51, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Postwar persecution

I cannot find any article dealing with postwar persecution of SS-men, with the exception of a single sentence in the intro of this article. `'mikka 18:05, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hauptamt Volksdeutsche Mittelstelle

I invite anybody who's interested to review the Hauptamt Volksdeutsche Mittelstelle article and provide feedback for improving it. I created this article a few weeks ago and have just recently expanded it with information that I took from the German and Italian Wikipedias using the rough translation provided by Google. Unfortunately, the information about the departments of this Hauptamt was in the Italian Wikipedia with the German names of the Amts. This meant that Google ignored the German names since it was trying to translate "Italian => English". I can translate some of the names of the Amts but not all and I could use some help doing that. If you do translate the names into English, please leave the German name in the article so that readers can see what the actual name was.

--Richard 16:33, 5 April 2007 (UTC)