Talk:Secret ballot

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ah, I figured it out. Removed my previous extraneous comment. Sim 16:55, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC)

I would have thought the secret ballot would have been around long before 1850. How about the process of Ostracism in Ancient Greece? This seems to qualify as a secret ballot, but I have no idea if it is the first such example.

Ostracism was done by popular vote, with pottery fragments used as ballots. When an ostracism was called, the citizens of Athens would gather in the marketplace and write the name of the man they wanted to ostracise on their ballot, then toss it into a pen. If less than six thousand ballots were cast, there was no ostracism, but if there were enough ballots, then the man whose name appeared most often on the pottery fragments was exiled for a period of ten years (from http://www.e-classics.com/ARISTIDES.htm)

Ostracism is as follows: The Demos takes a vote before the 8th Prytany, as to whether it seemed best to hold an ostracism. When the response is positive, the Agora is fenced off with barricades; ten entrances were left open, through which they entered according to Phyle and deposited their potsherds, keeping face-down what they had written. (from http://www.csun.edu/~hcfll004/ostracis.html)

This is a useful article-just-beyond-a-stub, but misses out on much.

Ostracism was intended to avoid civil war so it figures that they would want a defence against Ostracism.Dejvid 13:48, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

OOps! I meant a defence against intimidation.~~

Contents 1 Australian Ballot vs. Secret Ballot 2 Issues that could use covering 3 Facts First! 4 Australian history 5 Cleanup needed

[edit] Australian Ballot vs. Secret Ballot

• Australian ballot is a type of secret ballot. Therefore, it should not link here and should have it's own article.--141.154.37.186 19:50, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

That sounds reasonable. Would you want to take a crack at outlining the difference between a secret ballot and the Australian ballot? As far as I can remember, the australian ballot has the following properties:

• the ballot is secret (to avoid coercion and vote-selling)
• the ballot is non-partisan (to avoid any ballot design bias)
• the ballot is printed by the government (to avoid any party bias)

Is there more than this? -- Joseph Lorenzo Hall 20:54, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm now understanding that the term "australian ballot" is not common outside the US (?). So the more general term "secret ballot" is used. So perhaps the redirect here is fine. But I feel the article needs some editing to include the more general idea of secret ballots. Joebeone's third point is what I know to be an Australian ballot. A corollary is that the candidates or questions must decided in advance (enough advance for the ballots to be printed). But I'm not so sure about his second point, unless I misunderstand. I admit I am no expert and stumbled upon this article while editing another. I'm curious to know if the other forms (electonic, mechanical) are also condidered Australian ballot, or is it just paper?--141.154.37.186 20:41, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and made edits to the introduction.--141.154.37.186 21:12, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

There is a great deal of confusion about the term Australian Ballot, and it does indeed deserve its own entry. Many dictionaries define it as synonymous with secret ballot. Others add the points cited above. Several states use the term in their statutes to indicate a pre-printed secret ballot, emphasizing the distinction with the system being replaced, in which all choices were registered by writing in the candidates' names. Most of the legal uses of the term Australian Ballot originated in the 19th century. Present-day usage of the term, especially outside the United States, refers to the unique voting system in use in Australia, in which voters rank all candidates for a given office rather than simply marking the first choice. The idea is that the winner must have an absolute majority. How it works can be illustrated by an example. Say there are four candidates. First all of the first place votes are tallied. If one of the candidates has more than 50% of the votes, that person is elected. If no one has a majority, the last of the four candidates is eliminated. The ballots for the fourth-place finisher are then redistributed to the other three candidaes by the second choices on those ballots. If one of the three remaining candidates then has a majority, that person is elected. If not, the third-place finisher (who may not be the same individual that finished third based only on the first choice ballots) is eliminated. Those ballots are then redistributed between the remaining two candidates according to the second choices of those for whom the newly eliminated candidate was first choice and who did not choose the fourth-place finisher as second choice, or the third choices of those whose first two choices, in either order, were the two candidates who have been eliminated. Now there are just two candidates, and everyone who voted has had the opportunity to register a choice for one or the other, so the person with most votes wins. There are some technical points; for example, the definition of majority changes from one iteration to the next, because not everyone who votes actually ranks all the candidates, in which case they simply drop out when the last candidate they voted for is eliminated. When done by hand, counting ballots can take a long time. However, it is just as easy and fast by computer as it is to count first place choices only and award the election to the candidate with the largest plurality.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.210.75.182 (talk • contribs) 04:10, 25 January 2006.

You speak of preferential voting, not the Australian ballot. The Australian ballot is the method of secret balloting finalised in South Australia (though begun in Tasmania and Victoria) that became widespread throughout the world, and has since become synonymous with conceptions of secret ballot.--cj | talk 06:08, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

It would be great to get some citations to literature that talk about the differences between the secret ballot and Australian ballot. -- Joseph Lorenzo Hall 03:22, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

"The Austrailian secret ballot is 1) an official ballot being printed at public expense, 2) on which the names of the nominated candidates of all parties and all proposals appear, 3) being distributed only at the polling place and 4) being marked in secret." It seems #2 is incompatible with write-in candidates and #3 is incompatible with absentee ballots. So is it even accurate to say the "Australian ballot" is used in the US? Has discussion of these in America been marked with opponents saying "I'm against <write-ins/absentees> and I think we should stick to the Australian ballot"? jnestorius^(talk) 07:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Issues that could use covering

1. The impact of technology - The E-voting controversy in the United States is a great example, and one that cuts both ways, becuase of...
2. Disability and the secret ballot - Speaking from personal experience, this can make very technical issues incredibly emotive. Additionally, this isn't touched on much. (See E-voting. An angle never mentioned is that electronic voting methods allow the blind (for example) their first-ever chance at a truly secret ballot. (Presents methods result in what can best be described as a clown car in the voting booth.) This makes seemingly technical minutiae somewhat life-or-death issues to disabled voters.)
3. Absentee ballots - Just how secret are they?

---

I'm sure i'm missing a lot. Those who come by later should feel free to add stuff or comment. -- Penta 12:02, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Facts First!

Facts First! William Nicholson first Caired a meeting in Nov 1851 which was the first Victoria passed the bill for the ballot in November 1855 and it was on March nineteenth 1856 that the regulations for the Samuel Chapman system was adopted By the Victorian egislative Council. Chapmpan's sytem invilved Crossing out the names of unwanted Facts courtesy of the Melbourne Argus 1855,1856. Nicholson was seen as the hero but did we remember his 150th anniversary .. Nah !! I was taught ar school 55 years ago that Gladstone invented the ballor. Facts are important. The gold rush & the ballot were our peaceful revolution for heaven's sake let's celebrate The Gnome of Doon

AKA Richard Casey

Please cite sources. -- Joebeone (Talk) 18:54, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Australian history

The origional bit said that it was pioneered in Australia in the early 1850s Pioneered is certainly the wrong word because Chartism is earlier and indeed radicals had demanded the ballot even earlier in Britain. But it could be that there Australian's were independently demanding the secret ballot. Eureka pretty much adopted Chartisms six points word for word but the miners could have been ready for that because it was already in the air. Further Eureka's "success" could hav been due to the fact that they were pushing at an open door. But I'm speculating. Do any of you Australian folk know.Dejvid 13:48, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It had indeed been demanded in Britain by the Chartists (and the Australians copied the same idea), but Victoria was the first state to actually put the secret ballot into official use (it was actually incorporated into the Electoral Act). --bainer 01:11, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup needed

This article is a bit messy and needs cleanup