Talk:Seoul

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Old discussions (2003-2005): Talk:Seoul/Archive1

Contents 1 Characters for Shou'er 2 Same old same old 3 More pictures and info on Seoul needed 4 paste from snca article 5 sir edgar's improvements 6 new Portal:Korea 7 Australian sister city 8 Seorabeol? 9 A mnemonic to write the name- "Mercedes-leftcross, O-T-2" 10 Pronounciation audio file 11 Capital Change 12 IPA 13 Culture & Gallery 14 --Shultz IV 09:32, 28 May 2006 (UTC)Sorry!! 15 This article is worthless

[edit] Characters for Shou'er

From what I understand, 首爾 is only supposed to be the official Chinese name only while the official Korean name continues to be character-less. Since 首爾 is supposed to be Chinese and not Hanja, should both the traditional and simplified forms of the name be given? I can't see how China could adopt 首爾 as the official name when the simplified character set lacks the 爾 character. Simplified form would be 首尔.--Yuje 16:00, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Difficult question. The characters 首爾 were chosen by the Seoul Metropolitian Government. 尔 does not exist in Hanja, but then when people in China adopt the name designated by Seoul they have to use 尔 instead of 爾. — Instantnood 17:03, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

the section on chinese transcription, while interesting to me personally, seems way too detailed & long, in proportion to the article. i would expect that one paragraph would be sufficient here, which is, after all, aimed at english-speaking readers. you would be hard pressed to find even a short phrase about this specific topic in any other general encyclopedia or media profile of seoul. Appleby 21:29, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

How about this:

Unlike most place names in Korea, "Seoul" has no corresponding Hanja, and Chinese continued to refer to the city by its former name, name 漢城/汉城 (Hànchéng in Chinese, Hanseong in Korean). In January 2005, the Seoul Metropolitan Government requested that the Chinese name of the city be changed to 首爾/首尔, a close transliteration of Seoul in Mandarin Chinese, where 首 shǒu can also mean "first" or "capital", and Chinese communities gradually adopted this new name. This change was targetted primarily towards Chinese speakers and has no effect on the original Korean name. --Yuje 22:25, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

that sounds very good to me, thanks. how about substitute "China" or "China and other Chinese-speaking countries" or something similar for the first line's "Chinese"? Appleby 23:00, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

"Chinese-speaking countries" sounds good. --Yuje 23:17, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I did a little Google searching:

漢城: 3,950,000 首爾: 1,850,000

汉城：3,960,000 首尔：1,840,000

한성 remains far more widely used by far. --Ce garcon 23:24, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Same old same old

As an ex pat living in Korea I am just sick of reading bad English on web sights, advertisments etc. Could whoever is looking after this page please make sure (if it is a non national) that no Korean person has any hand in editing it. This is not a racist comment. I genuinely love Korean people and have been married to a Korean woman for 2 years. However, it drives me crazy that so many Koreans throw their crap English on to these sights, and given their whole 'pride' and 'saving face' nature, nobody bothers to do anything about this...

The person responsible for this page is you. And me. And the millions of other people who pass through the Wikisphere. Everyone at Wikipedia contributes by writing new articles and editing existing ones as they are able, then others (like you, and me) come along and patch things up, expand, add more. That means that every single one of the more than 1,000,000 articles here is a work in progress with as many editors. That's how it works. So, if you see some imperfect English, by all means thank the person who made the effort to contribute, and fix it yourself with the "edit this page" tab at the top of the article, or the many smaller [edit] tabs throughout the article, all of which are there so that anyone can use them. Go nuts. That's how Wiki works. Atkinson 14:30, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

couldn't agree more about the crap English. However, very few, if any, are perfect, even when speaking their native language. I notice as a native speaker, you still wrote "web sight" instead of "website." That's wrong, so should we ban you from editing this article? Oh no, you're excused since you "knew better" as a native speaker. Maybe you should appreciate the fact that Koreans are learning English and instead see how they'd react if/when you edited a Korean wiki page, doubtless containing some errors. In that case, I'd hope Koreans would encourage you for making the effort instead of castigating you. I would hate it if others prevented me from editing the Chinese wiki, which I do, just because my Chinese isn't perfect. I add the pulp and the natives refine it, as I am not yet at their level. But if I keep contributing and practicing, eventually I'll be close to perfect. So as the person above said, just edit what you don't like, that's what wiki is all about.

[edit] More pictures and info on Seoul needed

I think this article is severely lacking in terms of pictures and information. We need more info on tourism, economy, museums, more detailed information on transportation, different areas of Seoul and some of the notable boulevards and areas (Abgujeongdong for example). I also think we need a picture of Seoul Skyline.. I've found some great ones on the web, but can't post them because of unsure copyright info. It would be really great if someone could find some pictures on Skyline of Seoul. Deiaemeth 08:32, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Somebody put up some great pictures of Seoul. Good job! I would also like to see some with people though.--Sir Edgar 02:39, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] paste from snca article

Seoul National Capital Area seemed to largely duplicates this article. because much of it seems to have been lifted from here to begin with, i think we can delete it, but just in case someone wants to read it more carefully for info that can be salvaged for either Seoul or Seoul National Capital Area, i'm pasting it here. Appleby 17:00, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

• History

The SNCA has occupied a special place in Korean history. The first known capital that was located here was Wiryeseong, which was capital of the Baekje Kingdom. Following Wiryeseong's fall to an attack by the northern Goguryeo Kingdom in the 5^th century, the region fell under Goguryeo jurisdiction. Then, in the 6^th century, the Silla Kingdom attacked the region and held on to it until the 10^th century, when regional warlords initiated a uprising that eventually led to Silla's downfall. The reason for this struggle that occurred between the three kingdoms mentioned above was also because of this region. Due to its moderate climate, fertility, and its location at the center of the Korean Peninsula, as well as the advantages to its convenient sea and land commerce, the region became famous for its high standard of living in relation with other regions and its ability to facilitate an excellent transportation system.

Following the collapse of Silla, a new royal dynasty took control in Korea. Known as the Goryeo Dynasty, the new state established its capital at Songak (modern-day Kaesong), which was the birthplace of the new dynasty's founder. During the Goryeo Dynasty's rule, Songak was renamed Gaegyeong. This new capital quickly grew as the largest city in Korea. However, with Goryeo's fall in the 14^th century, its successor, the Joseon Dynasty, moved the capital to Hanyang, which had been named Namgyeong (Southern Capital) during the previous dynasty but was quickly renamed to Hanseong. During the new dynasty's rule, extensive road systems, administrative buildings, royal palaces, and new ports were built, quickly attracting wealth from all over the kingdom.

During the reign of the Korean Empire, Hanseong's public transportation was improved with the installation of streetcars and manually-drawn trolleys similar to taxis. Horse carriage systems similar to the ones in Europe were also established.

Following the Japanese annexation of Korea in 1910, Hanseong was renamed Keijo (Kyeongseong) and served as colonial Korea's capital. The Joseon Colonial Commandery Headquarters were built at Keijo, and several public institutions, such Keijo Imperial University, were founded. In addition, railroads connecting Seoul to other cities were completed, leading to the construction of Seoul Station soon after. As a result, transportation in the Capital Metropolitan Area greatly improved as well. It was also during the period of Japanese rule that the port of Incheon became a major trading harbor.

Korea's liberation from Japan in 1945 resulted in the renaming of Keijo. The former colonial capital was renamed Seoul and became capital of the Republic of Korea.

During the Korean War, the SNCA became the focus of battles so destructive that most of Seoul and the surrounding regions were eradicated. Seoul was especially hit hard, since it exchanged hands nearly five times during the whole course of the war. Rebuilding was slow, due to a lack of construction materials and South Korea's poor economic state at the time.

During the latter half of the 20^th century, the SNCA began to rapidly develop as South Korea's economic wealth expanded. Population booms in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s raised the population of the region to nearly four times the amount of people during the Korean War era. Foreign investment and state-supported industries took a strong foothold here. In 2001, Incheon International Airport took over all international flights to Seoul, further boosting the region's international status.

• Present Status

Currently, the SNCA forms South Korea's greatest industrial, commercial, financial, and residential region. Hi-tech industries, such as semi-conductor chip manufacturing, high-standard electronics production, and IT industries are especially strong here, playing a key role in South Korea's status as the world's strongest IT nation. Other factors that contribute to this region's position as a transportation and business hub for all of East Asia is finance and commerce, which are accommodated by Incheon International Airport and Seoul's downtown districts, where business is particularly vibrant. The SNCA is also the cultural hub of the Korean Peninsula. Seoul alone is the site of five grand palaces and other historical attractions. Modern landmarks, such as the COEX Convention Center, the World Trade Center, Seoul Tower, and the 63 Building are all located in Seoul. Korea's highest skyscraper, Tower G of the Tower Palace high-rise apartment complex, is also renowned throughout the country. In recent years, the South Korean government has expanded efforts aimed at dispersing the heavily concentrated population of the SNCA from Seoul to neighboring satellite cities in an effort to lower Seoul's heavy congestion levels. This has resulted in the rapid growth of cities like Seongnam, whose populations increased fivefold.

[edit] sir edgar's improvements

very nice job, sir edgar, with your extensive rewriting & cleanup of the article, especially the intro. thanks for the hard work.

maybe the next step is to check the general organization of the article. Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities doesn't seem very well developed, but they suggest this outline:

• History
• Geography
• Demographics (we don't have)
• Economy (we don't have, but we have "Transportation" which may be a subsection?)
• Law and government (we don't have, but maybe covered by "administration" list?)
• Education (we don't have, except for a list below, but may not need)
• Sites of interest (we have "historic sites and tourism" list below)
• Sports (ours is called "Recreation and sports")
• Notable natives (we don't have, but i don't think we need)
• External links

the chinese transcription section is a bit awkwardly placed, & i'm not sure if the list of schools is helpful. we probably don't need education & notable natives sections, since south korea is such a small country & the population is so concentrated in seoul; these topics would be covered by a Education in South Korea & List of Koreans & such. maybe the same for law & government section, except for the administrative list. Appleby 02:23, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind words, Appleby. I hope to continue improving the Seoul article. I agree with you on the need for standardization of this article with other like articles on Wikipedia. I would like to see this article go in a direction of simplicity, readability, and deliverability. It should be easy to read, well-organized, and contain useful information. Hopefully, we can bring it to a quality worthy of being a Featured Article. Everyone's help is required for this task.--Sir Edgar 02:11, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] new Portal:Korea

User:Visviva has worked hard to create a brand new Portal:Korea. Please take a look & contribute if you can. I think the new Template:Korea-related topics has the potential to be a more useful reference tool than categories or lists, if editors continue to expand and update it. It's also a good reminder for help & requests on ye olde notice board. Hopefully, this will help revive some activity all around. Appleby 21:28, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Australian sister city

Hi, New South Wales is not a city in Australia, it is a state :)

I do not know where to find the keeper of these sister city lists, but if someone can point me in the right direction, I'll fix it up. It will probably be Sydney anyway.

Cheers. Sclozza 07:13, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, according to the Seoul government website, it is NSW and not Sydney. That's somewhat unusual, but it's not the only occasion where sisterhood relationships exist between a province or state and a large city. Of course, the govt. website could be wrong, but I don't know how we would go about checking; the NSW website doesn't seem to mention sisterhood ties at all. -- Visviva 07:20, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Seorabeol?

My understanding was always that seorabeol (or something similar) was an old name of Gyeongju, which became adopted in Old Korean as a word for "capital" and modified into "서울," and that this only became the proper name of Seoul in the 20th century. Was Seorabeol ever actually applied to Seoul as a place-name? If not, that needs to leave the list of names. -- Visviva 13:35, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

oops, you're right, i made that mistake, i meant to say wiryeseong. there's very detailed history (in korean) at [1]. Appleby 16:07, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A mnemonic to write the name- "Mercedes-leftcross, O-T-2"

Mercedes leftcross,

            O
            T
            2

The first letter looks like the Mercedes-Benz symbol. The second letter looks like the left half of a crucifix. The remaining three looks respectively like an O, T, and 2 (going down, of course.) Look ---> "서울" <--- See the resemblance?

So recite "Mercedes-leftcross, O-T-2" and before you know it, you'll remember how to write down "Seoul" in the Hangeul script. --Shultz IV 00:26, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Addendum: After you download and add the Korean Language Support to your OS, select "KO" (Korean) and you should be able to type Hangeul characters. After you do this, typing "T-J-D-N-F" gives you 서울.

Here is a mapping of the keyboard letters to their hangul assignments:

• T = ㅅ
• J = ㅓ
• D = ㅇ
• N = ㅜ
• F = ㄹ

(I wish the hangeul characters would be assigned to the keys of the letters that sound alike but strangely, this isn't the case.) --Shultz IV 09:32, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pronounciation audio file

Can somebody add a higher quality one please? Thanks. PizzaMargherita 19:03, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Capital Change

The SK government has made plans to move the capital to another area. We should include that in this article and the South Korea article. Arbiteroftruth 07:32, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] IPA

Would someone please add the IPA transcription? --WikiMarshall 01:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Culture & Gallery

What's the difference? (Wikimachine 01:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC))

[edit] --Shultz IV 09:32, 28 May 2006 (UTC)Sorry!!

03:28, 31 January 2007 (UTC)03:28, 31 January 2007 (UTC)~~Since I`m a korean Living in Seoul Seoul is correct pronounciation for 서울

[edit] This article is worthless

I've been living in Seoul for the past 25 years, and this article reads like it was written (badly, I must say) by someone in the city's PR office, offering little useful information. In short, it sucks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Singhahyung (talk • contribs) 09:26, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

Then do something about it. Jegal 20:44, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

You do know that Wikipedia is a site that anybody can edit? Perhaps you should try it. Seicer (talk) (contribs) 03:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

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