Talk:Serbian dinar

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I think this article is going to have some copyright problems. Chunks of it appear to have come directly from http://www.nbs.yu/english/coins/index.htm and the banknotes themselves are almost certainly also under copyright. I know from personal experience that banks don't like anyone reproducing their notes unless it's under very strict supervision and with explicit prior permission. I suggest that (a) the article needs to be rewritten and (b) the copyright status of the banknotes needs to be clarified. Has permission been given for them to be reproduced? If not, the images will need to be deleted as copyvios. -- ChrisO 01:47, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure what's involved here (on the images) would be enforcement of copyright, but rather valid concerns about possible counterfeiting attempts. I've seen in other places pictures of currency displayed with the word "specimen" stamped on top to allay these concerns, and I'd be happy to fix these images up with that if it would suffice.

That would certainly help, but my more fundamental concern is that any copying of banknotes is usually banned under anti-counterfeiting as well as copyright laws. Over here, the Bank of England makes you jump through a lot of hoops before you can reproduce any notes or portions of notes, even ones with "specimen" stamped on them - see http://213.225.140.30/banknotes/repoappform.htm . I think it'd be a good idea if Igor explicitly asked the Serbian national bank's permission. I don't know if he's actually in Serbia or not, but if he is then he could potentially have some legal liabilities here. It'd be in his own interests to make sure, not just Wikipedia's. -- ChrisO 02:07, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not hosted in the UK nor Serbia. Their anti-countefeiting and copyright laws do not apply. Cburnett 17:36, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

So you're saying it's hosted in a pirate haven where theft is considered normal.

I have since replaced the images with those from the website of the National Bank of Serbia, which allows for their redistribution[1]. So if someone is interested, all coin and banknote images from [2] could be imported to Wikipedia. Nikola 02:06, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The text is another matter of course. - Hephaestos|§ 01:59, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I'm not so worried about that, to be honest, it's a simple enough job to rewrite it... -- ChrisO 02:07, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 The 100 Dinara image still says "Yugoslavia" 2 RSD 3 dinara / dinar issue 4 coins 5 Trivia

[edit] The 100 Dinara image still says "Yugoslavia"

The 100 Dinara image still says "Yugoslavia"

[edit] RSD

Any clue as to when the currency code will finally be updated? —Nightstallion (?) 15:36, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

ISO is due to publish the new code as soon as National Bank of Serbia and national standardization institute ask for it... However, the way the Institute was performing lately and based upon experience with transition from YUD to CSD, I'd say it'll happen in the next six months. Meelosh 18:14, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

ISO 4217 still showing "CSD", article saying "RSD". Article will be correct, but has gone too soon. JDAWiseman 20:41, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

For the record, this list also shows "RSD" now. Meelosh 13:57, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. —Nightstallion (?) 21:55, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] dinara / dinar issue

Convention is to use the native language form of the currency, not English - so, while I'm not saying it should be 100 dinars in English (100 dinar bill is correct), the native (Serbian language) form would be 100 dinara.

Examples of such practice at Wikipedia can be found on almost every currency page where English is not the native language. See Polish złoty, Slovak koruna, Danish krone, Icelandic króna, Ukrainian hryvnia, Albanian lek, Bulgarian lev. Note that these are only examples among the European currencies. Also see template talk for Infobox:Currency. Meelosh 13:46, 21 January 2007 (UTC).

I agree to use local cases as written in the style guide. I guess there are room for different interpretation. I interpret that as "use local cases" and "use English grammar". I know it could be confusing. Let me explain. I would write:

These denominations have been issued

• 1 dinar
• 2 dinara
• ...

The highest valued bankonte is 1000 dinara (English grammar dictates plural, local case is dinara) . The 1000 dinar (English grammar dictates singular, local case is dinar) banknote was first issued in ....

If we were to use local grammar then it would complicate the matter 100 fold. Imagine this: "The mint first struck the 10 dinar coin in ...." So the 10 dinar coin should be accusative case. Do we know the accusative case in Serbian? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 14:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Serbian language does know the accusative case, among six others, however in this example the case would be applied to the word coin, and not dinar. In fact, I cannot recall a single case where any case, other than the basic nominative case form, would be applied to the name of the currency - the word changes only from singular (dinar) to plural (dinara). When it is not accompanied by the value, it does change from case to case (Do you have dinars? Imaš li dinare?; but Do you have 100 dinars? Imaš li 100 dinara?, which is the simple plural form).

Of course, this being an English Wikipedia, the contents should be in English. Personally, I am against the convention I was trying to "enforce" here and would use only English forms - dinar and dinars, only denoting the name of the currency in local language. However, since it is official style guide for this subject, I believe we have to respect it.

To conclude, a case where we would say 100 dinar for a 100 dinar banknote would be plain English. Local language uses 100 dinara, the plural form, even for the banknote itself (novčanica od 100 dinara), and not the value - where English uses plural as well. --Meelosh 16:57, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps this could be resolved by removing the word banknote, and leaving only the inscription 100 dinara. That way English grammar would dictate use of the proper local plural form. What do you think? Meelosh 17:02, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea. I took the liberty of doing so. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 18:02, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The convention is invalid here, as all the currencies above don't have an English name whereas the dinar does. --Hadžija 22:27, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Now, that's just unwise, to say the least. Dinar is English word as much as zlot, krona, lev or lek. Also, if you look at this article, you will clearly see that dinar is a word that comes from modern Arabic, but derives from Latin denarius. No English roots whatsoever. Convention does maintain an exception for dinar, but only for pre-1992 Yugoslav dinar. The only reason it does so is that plural of three languages that were official in former Yugoslavia (and considered local by Wikipedia standards) differs in the word dinar (Serbian and Croatian dinara, Slovenian dinarjev...) - English form is used then, instead of three local forms.

But, let's not discuss irrelevant issues. The convention clearly states that local name for the denomination should be used even if there is an English translation - so, even if dinar was an English word (or English name, whatever that should mean), local variant would still be used. I believe we've come to a satisfactory solution for all sides here by simly removing the word banknote - by the way, other currency articles do not have the banknote as well, so we are not making a precedent, in fact we are standardizing the article. Issue is then only whether it should read English 100 dinars or Serbian 100 dinara - and the convention leaves no room for further interpretation as to which language should be used in this case. Regards, Meelosh 23:23, 21 January 2007 (UTC).

Oh, who cares. Do whatever.--Hadžija 23:44, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] coins

im intrested to know some information about the para. I know that 50 para used to be the smallest value of the Serbian currency, and was wondering why it isn't still being made. Also, why is it that the 10 and 20 dinara come in paper and metal? Thanks JU580 07:53, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

50 para is not being minted anymore due to its extremely low value (cca EUR 0,006). Based on decision of the NBS Council, all sums are rounded up to nearest full dinar - meaning that amount of, for example, 45.76 RSD is actually being charged as 46.00 RSD, while 45.46 RSD would amount to 45.00 RSD. I don't know the specific reason why 10 and 20 come in both forms, however, it is not an unprecedented practice (on the contrary), and there is high demand for those denominations. What could explain it is the fact that when "new dinar" was introduced in 1994, 10 and 20 dinars were actually the highest denominations, with value of 10 and 20 DEM, respectively, and they came in paper only (besides 1 and 5 dinar banknotes). In time, they lost a lot of value, and became coins in 2001-2003 - but banknotes remained valid and have been redesigned. However, 1 and 5 dinar banknoted were withdrawn back in 1996 and 2000. A lot of vending machines use 10 and 20 RSD banknotes, so it might be one of the reasons to keep them for a while... Meelosh 11:06, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

This is good information (that sums are rounded to the nearest dinar). If you can find a source, could you add that to the article? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 16:07, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

thanks alot for that Meelosh. It would be nice for the dinar to gain more value. It was impressive how the Euro fell under 80 dinars a couple of months ago. I hope it continues. JU580 13:06, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

A bit of trivia:

• Only one woman, Nadežda Petrović, is featured on Serbian banknotes;
• Other seven are male, and every single one of them wears moustache;
• They all have lived during the 19th or the early 20th century;
• People featured are shown at younger age at the front, while watermarks (and sometimes reverse) show them at older age - this practice is a consequence of the fact that National Bank of Serbia governor Mlađan Dinkić wanted the redesigned 2000 dinar to look more vigorous and optimistic, however, the paper with watermarks for RSD (then YUM) 10, 20, 50 and 100 has already been prepared by previous administration; so, while the watermarks retained their original design, portraits have been "rejuvenated". Later series and denominations kept this unusual custom to have people presented at a different age on a single banknote.

Meelosh 03:46, 12 March 2007 (UTC)