Talk:Shahmukhi script
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I thought shahmukhi's primary use was for Punjabi in Pakistan but I'm not expert. In any case I think this page should mention that that language also uses the gurmukhi and devanagari scripts. — Hippietrail 01:18, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Yeah, you're right. Shahmukhi is used specifically to write Punjabi, not Urdu. The only difference between Shahmukhi and the Nastaleeq script (used to write Urdu) is that Shahmukhi has a few additional characters for consonants only found in Punjabi. --Katangoori 23:20, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Hi, I just thought I'd mention I've always thought of Shahmukhi script and Urdu as identicle. I can't for the life of me think of a letter that one uses in Shahmukhi that one doesn't use in Urdu. But I could be wrong.
- I'm no expert, but I think it uses a couple of extra characters. Whether Unicode has these characters is another thing altogether. See: [1]. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 12:50, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Maybe there are multiple orthographies used for Punjabi in Shahmukhi. The orthography that I have always noticed used in Lahore in play billboards (for Punjabi plays) and in Punjabi books is exactly like Urdu with 36 characters. I've never noticed the extra characters like jje and the nne. But I don't doubt that it probably isn't standardized. I'll try to find out from the Punjab Textbook Board what the official provincial orthography for Punjabi is.
- That's excellent! If you could find out more about the relation between Shahmukhi and Gurmukhi that'd be cool too. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 12:34, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Report from Lahore
Right I have been looking like mad for a Punjabi book that uses any letters beyond the 36 of Urdu and I have not found one. I have found the official texts used by Punbaj Textbook Board and they too do not use these extra letters. Furthermore I spoke to my Father's Sister's Husband who is a Punjabi literature buff (both in Shahmukhi and Gurumukhi) and he says he has never seen these extra letters in anything he has come across. If anyone knows where these extra letters might be used I'd be much obliged. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ahassan05 (talk • contribs).
- I've found the following two listed under Lahnda in the Unicode charts:
-
- ڰ Arabic Letter Gaf with Ring [06B0]
- ڋ Arabic Letter Dal with Dot below and Small Tah [068B]
- And these under Siraiki:
-
- 0759 – Arabic letter dal with two dots vertically below and small tah (Siraiki)
- 0768 – Arabic letter noon with small tah (Siraiki)
- Just a side note, there is a unique Punjabi sound Rra (ੜ) which isn't present in Hindi (and therefore probaby not Urdu either) so maybe that is one of the letters? Also the other marks could be tonal identifiers? Whether or not they are used on printed material is another matter though. All that may be available are Urdu typesetting tools, and that could be the reason why all the signs use the standard Urdu alphabet. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 01:13, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
- No, the rra is written with ڑ, and is present in Urdu.
اَيُّوْبْ وَزيْرْ 03:30, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] This is th Seraiki alphabet
1. The tabulated Alphabet is that of Seraiki (Laihndii or Multani). That is what the very first footnote says. It is written by Christopher Shackle, a well known Linguist from London School of Oriental and African Studies.
2. Apparently, the name Seraiki is derived from a word for North (direction) in Sindhi. Just as Punjabis call Seraiki (language) as ‘Laihndii’ (Punjabi word for ‘from West’) – ‘Laihnde waale paaseoN’!
3. The subject is not my area of expertise, but I can contribute some confusion, though. Hanif seems to have some difficulty with Letters – numbered 15, 31 and 36, with which Hanif had some difficulty:
Letter No. 15: ‘ddaal’ should sound like our (Urdu) ‘daal-Shadd’ ڈّ) ). it is equivalent to ‘repeated d’ and should have the sound of ‘dd’ as in ‘Gaddi’ (train) or ‘Guddi’ (doll or kite).
Letter No. 31: Is our Urdu ‘Gaaf’!
Letter No. 36: From the Gurmukhi equivalent which Shackle has given, this letter ‘Tuun’ has the sound of ‘Hard’ N. That is where N is a dental sound (produced with the tip of the tongue pressing against the teeth), ‘Hard’ N is a Retroflex sound; that is, it is produced by the tip of the tongue pressing against the backend of the top-of-palate – “taaluu”! I can’t remember any equivalent Urdu sound!
Sincerely: Sukhbir Singh, Indianapolis, USA.
