Talk:Shechita

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[edit] Cruelty NPOV

While this page is informative, the last section about this practice describes it as cruel, which it may or may not be, especially in comparison to non-kosher, regular-practice slaughterhouses-it sort of contains weasel words, and violates a NPOV position. SaraK 08:39, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi sara, I see that you are new here - welcome to Wikipedia. The section is pretty well source and there are only a few "other Jewish groups" or the like which is not as bad of a weasel word as just "others". If you can find out which group in particular they were I would be great if you could add that to the article. I agree that there could be more on the defence POV, but they would have to quoted by notabled people, not just added. If you can find anything please feel free to add it. If you have any questions feel free to ask me on my talk page. Jon513 12:26, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I propose entirely and simply deleting the "Animal Welfare controversies" section. This is an article about Shechita and should explain and define that. Very few (if any) topics are without controversy, and it is not desirous to explore every controversial viewpoint about every single subject on every single Wikipedia page. If this videotaping event is so important, it more appropriately belongs on an AgriProcessors page or a PETA page. BBODO 14:40, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. The controvery that has caused the method to be banned in some countries is due to animal welfare concerns and this needs to be explained~in the article. // Liftarn

[edit] Sources

I propose that this article be tagged as needing sources, either with the CN or Unsourced tag. Specific paragraphs which I think need sources are the first, second and third paragraphs. I would like to hear other people's opinion on this.Starwarp2k2 20:49, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll source it. hold off on a tag. Jon513 20:23, 23 July 2006 (UTC

Most of the stuff on shekhitah is not sourcable because it is complete bunk. Shekhitah in itself has nothing to do with the command not to eat blood, but with the command, "You shall slaughter the way I showed you on the mountain." The pourging of blood is accomplished after the animal is dead in kashrus, and shekhitah does not require even one veign or artery to be cut. The only things that have to be cut are the food pipe and the wind pipe. If somebody has a wild technique to accomplish this without severing the arteries, he is completely fine and the animal is kosher. Undoubtably those things are cut, but its as a side point not as the object. The blood pressure dropping to zero in the brain bit is rediculous as, like I said, no veign or artery needs to be cut for the shekhitah to be kosher, only the two simmonim. The beginning of that satatement, about the object being to cut the majority of the veins or whatever is bunk. The object is to cut through most of the windpipe and foodpipe in large animals, and the majority of one of them in birds. Also, the last bit about the hindquarters doesn't belong in this article as that is called nikor, and has nothing to do with shekhitah. The bit about lungs is also a seperate matter called bedikah. Shekhitah is only the killing. Neither nikkor or beddikah are done in chickens or birds, for example. The part about the animal needing to be in good health is rediculous, as one of the major sections of hilchos shekhitah is the Misukenes - an animal who's life is in danger. They may be slaughtered and are perfectly kosher as long as they demonstrate pirkus - the movement of one limb after the simmonim are cut. Lastly, the pain signal business is not accurate as the demonstration of some sort of movement after shekhitah is REQUIRED for the animal to be kosher, and shekhitah is not to prevent pain. Nobody knows the reason for shekhitah, and this is actually reflected in a halakhah of shekhitah, that we are forbidden to think of reasons for it as it is a halakhah given to Moses at Mount Sinai. (SImlah Hadashah Perek 23 sif 1) I'm sorry if I sound overly critical, but almost the entirety of the article is false, which is a unique accomplishment, but not entirely unique on Jewish articles. The Neturei Karta article is almost entirely fabrication. 88.154.158.42 21:49, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

welcome to wikipedia. Thank for you taking the time to write about what you think about this this article. Wikipedia is a wiki meaning that anyone can change it, and we encourage you to do so. The fastest way to make an article better is by clicking the "edit this page" tab at the top of your screen.

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Shechita is used in this article in the modern vernacular meaning "perparation of a living animal to eaten", including bedicaka, nikkor, kashuring, etc; not in the talmudic sence refering only to the acutal slaughter. If you can suggest a name that would be more appropiate I would support such an effort (renaming an article can only be done by someone with an account for a few day, so either make one yourself or ask on this page). The animal being in good health is, as I suspect you know, a translation of triefa. Granted that there is not a strict connection being triefut and health, it is not "complete bunk". If you want to expand it to explain all the laws of treifut go ahead. In fact if you want to change anything of the article please go ahead. Jon513 09:06, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Jon513 and others. I wrote up an article I think is pretty accurate, I'm puting sources in now. I don't know how to put it somewhere where it doesn't appear on the page so you can add what you like to it before it end up on WIkipedia. I'd like to work with you, and I think we might have an article that could be a featured article if we work together on the talk pages to keep edit wars to a minimum. I'm a shochet, and must say, there are no accurate descriptions of shechitah on the net right now that I know of. Ths would be a good accomplishment for WIkipedia. I think the Major danger to the article is people from Progressive sects of Judaism getting mad at the description of what is required for shechitah and editing it to be innacurate, so we may need to discuss a way to have their views on the matter also included, but seperate from the body of the description since most people wanting to know about shechitah want to know about shechitah as it is required to be done by the Shulchan Aruch and ancient sources, and the way it is done in modern shleucht houses. Its also that people might want to know the progressive views, so maybe a seperate section with the title Non-Orthodox views, or something so there opinions are expressed accurately, but nobody gets confused and thinks they are followed in the Shleucht hauzes. Any ideas? Shia1 17:09, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

OK Shia, I've added a section for you to fill. I am not a shochet, not do I have kabbala on shechita, although I have shechted (3 roosters using Acherim omed al gabov) after the kollel I was in finished Hilchos Shechita.For a while I was chazering with the Simlah Chadasha, but that was years ago :(. Your expertise will be greatly appreciated. -- Avi 17:16, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey Avi. I'm having trouble finding sources describing the way shechitah is carried out in modern shleucht hauzes. I think we all know, as many of us have been inside and even worked in them, but I can't find any references. Do you know of any? 88.153.87.107 21:52, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

At http://www.goveg.com/feat/agriprocessors/ you will find a video. // Liftarn

where are the halachot of shechita in the shulchan arukh? (there is an online copy here) Jon513 11:14, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Very beginning of Yoreh Deah Chelek Aleph (YD:1–28)-- Avi 12:26, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Most of what I was going to put in was from Simlah Hadashah and Maateh Asher. It would make the article a lot better if someone could put in sources straight from Shulchan Aruch and the Gemmorah Chulin. Anyways, I'm going to be in Ukraine until Monday, maybe after that I'll contibute something if nobody minds. I was wondering if anybody thought maybe bedikah needed to be a seperate article. It's kind of complex to have in here. Maybe a real quick mention. What do you guys think? 88.152.11.86 01:42, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Quick mention. As should trebering have a quick mention. However, Bedikas HaSakin, Haschazah, Bedikas HaSimanim after Shechita all need proper mention. My Semicha bechinas are beginning to haunt me again (L'Da'avoni, It's been years since I have chazered these Halachos). Enjoy Uman ;) Kesiva V'Chasima Tova and a Gut gebentched yar. -- Avi 21:18, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I put in some stuff I wrote down. My sukkah's not done though, and I have to go work on it or appear lazy before the wife. I'll put some more down later, and add sources. Shia1 15:57, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deleted material

The Haluk Anil study's conclusion that bolt stunning does not slow exsanguination is a concern for halal slaughter, but not for kosher slaughter. The Jewish objection to stunning rests on the fact that an injured animal may not be slaughtered for food according to Jewish law. Flourdustedhazzn 00:44, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it should be in Bans on ritual slaughter instead. // Liftarn