Talk:Slot machine

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Contents 1 History 2 Slot clubs 3 Follow up on history 4 Gaming Machines 5 Comment 6 Fairplay & Fraud 7 Myths Debunked 8 Online Slots 9 Video poker? 10 Australian poker machines 11 NZ English: pokie machines 12 British English: Slot machines

[edit] History

I expect we might discover that slot machines predate Las Vegas (by a hundred years or so) one day. But, hey!, that might be hoping for a slightly less Americanocentric viewpoint than prevails in these here parts... user:sjc

I'm puzzled as to why the previous author, "sjc", felt compelled to remark about "these parts" being "Americanocentric", without having a source or some other basis on which to claim that slot machines were invented in another country. Sjc, if you have a reference to back up your "expectation" of slot machines being invented in another country, I look forward to reading all about it. Also the article (and numerous other sources) makes no mention of Las Vegas being the origin of slot machines. The article states that San Francisco is where they first became popular. (It's also misleading to speculate about an alternative origin for slot machines other than Las Vegas, when the article states otherwise in the introductory paragraph, and also given that Las Vegas was little more than a water stop in the desert in the late 1800s.)

All of the articles I have read on the history of slot machines state that the first slot machine was indeed called the "Liberty Bell", and later, the "Mills Liberty Bell".

A few moments of googling will yield thousands of online references documenting the Charles Fey/late 1880s/San Francisco origins of slot machines.

The most authoritative and detailed reference concerning the history of slot machines, that I am aware of, is from UNLV (University of Nevada Las Vegas):

http://gaming.unlv.edu/research/subject/slot_history.html

Here are three other references, picked at random from Google - they all agree on the overall history (with various details omitted):

http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blslotmachines.htm

http://www.acbutch.com/ACbutch-art-slot-history.html

http://www.slotsmachinesonline.com/history_of_slot_machines.html

There are also books published on this subject, such as:

LEMON, CHERRIES AND BELLFRUITGUM 352 page book, Dick Bueschel, 1995. "A full color history of slot machines from 1885-1995".

SLOT MACHINES: A PICTORIAL HISTORY of the FIRST 100 YEARS, 5th Edition with PRICE GUIDE "This publication by Marshall Fey is one of the best selling books on coin-op machines (over 30,000 copies sold) and is a collectors favorite. National History Award. Covers Slots, and Trade Stimulators from their inception up to todays casino machines, 667 photos, 412 in full color, hb, 256 pg".

Sjc's remarks about an "Americanocentric viewpoint" and some mysterious slot machines "predating Las Vegas by a hundred years or so" are unsubstantiated conjecture and misleading, respectively.

Sjc, if you have some political axe to grind against the historical record of this American invention, please at least find a better example than picking on a Bavarian immigrant who came to America to set up shop and create his inventions. Sources please. I would be eager to read all about it, to help dispel the "Americanocentric" bias you claim lingers "in these here parts".

Thanks. DV 03:56, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Slot clubs

Are slot clubs offered by gaming establishments outside of the United States? I added a subsection to the "United States slot machines" section that describes these clubs, as they are a significant part of gaming in the United States, especially for frequent slot players. DV 05:26, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Follow up on history

This article has now been substantially modified since my original comments were made nearly two years ago. If you look at the article which then existed by going to the history, you will probably immediately discern why I made those comments, and they probably need no more explanation than that. Sjc 09:50, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification Sjc. Your original comment didn't have a timestamp, so I didn't realize how much time had elapsed, nor how different the article was when you made your original comment. I'm sorry that I attributed your comment to the later article.

If you do ever find info about slot machines that predate Las Vegas by a hundred years or so, please let me know, as my wife and I enjoy this subject. Thanks for stopping by. --DV 10:06, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I am not even sure timestamps with the four tildes were available when I wrote it :) Sjc 04:37, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Included some extra information regarding UK Stlye machines. [kensplace]

[edit] Gaming Machines

The official term for these machines in Australia is 'Gaming Machines'. The term 'pokies' or 'poker machines' is pure local slang.

I'm not sure of the position of other countries but a quick google on 'Gaming Machines' will reveal that the term is at least used in Australia, UK and USA.

Never the less, the other names of them should definatly redirect here, which they don't currently. Jedi-Jesus 04:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comment

In Nevada, slot machines are also called "gaming machines" - I guess it sounds better than "gambling".

The real reason I'm writing is that when I worked for a casino (mid-1990's), the coin areas of the machine included the coin hopper and the drop box. I wasn't a slot tech, so I'm not sure, but I seem to recall that the hopper (physically located at the top of the machine) is filled up by casino personnel, but never by people who insert coins/tokens. Anything inserted into the machine went into a separate area of the machine (at the bottom) known as the "drop box", yet there's no mention of this in the article. I'm pretty sure it's still true, so it would be cool if someone could check this out. I'll ask one of my friends at the casino when I have a chance.

--ZZYZX 06:49, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Added clarifications as to hopper and drop box.

Not true. coins inserted by the player fill the hopper until it reaches a certain level, until they contact a metal probe, therefore completeing a circuit and actuating a diverter solenoid, sending the coins to the drop instead. This prevents the hopper from overflowing(and shorting out a circuit board or something). The hopper sits in the bottom of the game, under the reel shelf or monitor--Pilotsmoe 05:56, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fairplay & Fraud

Added a controversial part to European section about alleged fraud. Only one source, so cleanup, wikify, add counterpoints etc as you see fit. Added for completeness of article. Djbrianuk 23:59, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Myths Debunked

I disagree with this information being presented as fact. One finds books that make these same claims. However, it is fundamentally illogical to have multiple hits on a variety of machines from 7-10 pm, then hit nothing at all by 5 am the next day, after the "multiple hits" money, and then some, is depleted!206.195.19.42 22:58, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

If you have credible sources to support this claim, feel free to add those references to the article. -- Seitz 17:51, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I actually question the "hot and cold machines" assertion as a "myth". As the author asserted, some machines "force" wins to attain a "payout percentage". In Australia at least, regulations require a payout percentage of between 60-90% (depending on region and type of venues), and this figure is audited daily. This payout percentage is not calculated daily, so it may not manifest over several hours, or even days; however it is logically possible that a machine would pay more if it hasn't paid out for a long period of time. It's just that this "long period" could be as long as several days, and few would be sufficiently vigilant to scrutinise such patterns.--Alexio 01:22, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Slot payout percentages in the payout program are supposed to be calculated over the lifetime of the machine, not within a short time period of a few hours. There will be periods of time where the machine will not pay out, just like there will be periods of time when the machine pays out many times in a short period. Over the life of the machine, however, it will all work out to the preprogrammed payout percentage. SpikeJones 03:37, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Online Slots

Is it worth having a section dedicated to online slots? There's far more variety in online slot games. Paylines alone they range from single paylines up to 20 payline games. Also some of the most popular online slot games have bonus games. Some of these bonus games are luck based, for example wheel of fortune style, but others are skill based. If anything the increase in slots popularity is coming from more people playing online. Any thoughts? Excel32 10:58, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

If there is anything significantly different in the way that online slots work compared to the way physical slots work, then yes - add a section for online slots that specifically identifies those differences. (ex: online slots have multiple paylines, but so do physical slots -- that fact wouldn't qualify; nor would the existence of skill- or luck-based bonus games, as those also exist in physical slots) If the only difference is that there is "more variety and they are gaining popularity", then there is no need to add a section for online slots. If you do find enough information to add the section and use the phrase "increase in popularity coming from people playing online", then you need to provide references that supports that statement. SpikeJones 11:58, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Video poker?

It seems wrong to describe "video poker" as "slot machines". They seem fundamentally different games, in terms of appearance, game play, and strategy. However, I can see the argument being made that these are just variations in the type of slot machine game. I'd like to read what others think. -- Seitz 18:00, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I think in terms of gameplay and appearance, the two games are very similar indeed, although IMO a good argument could be made that video slots are a fundamentally different game from reel slots, since the mechanism running the actual machine is different. Slot machines and video poker are certainly closely related though. The main difference is the skill element involved, and there are some "video poker" machines and games that run just as randomly as slot machines, and don't have a skill element at all.Rray 03:43, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Australian poker machines

I'm proposing the following changes:

• Boldening the term "gaming machine" and put "poker machine/pokies" in quotation marks - the "official" term (as acknowledged by the author) should be bolded.
• Gaming machines are not legal "all over the country" - it's still illegal in Western Australia outside of Burswood.
• Changed references to "clergy" and "charities to the poor" to "religious groups" and "welfare organisations". Charities are only one type of welfare organisations - how about Gamblers Anonymous?
• "This higher level of complexity has meant that greater revenues can be obtained by operators, but also that the potential for problem gambling to develop is increased." - empirical basis unclear. Left out unless cites are provided.
• "This greater accessibility is also seen as a potential contributor to problem gambling." - once again, empirical basis is unclear. There are at least 9 dimensions to accessibility according to the Australian Productivity Commission's report in 1999[[1]]. Which (if any) of them pertains to problem gambling is open to research.
• "In the state of Queensland gaming machines in pubs and clubs must provide a return rate of 60% while machines located in casinos must provide a return rate of 90%." - citation is needed. NSW also has a pay-back quota, although I'm not sure what it is (and don't have the citation).--Alexio 01:18, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NZ English: pokie machines

Perhaps some reference could be made to the NZ English (and Australian?) term: pokie machine. From the NZ Herald: [2] Charities take stand against pokies funding 1.00pm Friday September 8, 2006 Twenty charities have banded together and refused to accept the takings from pokie machines because they say the impact of gambling undermines their moves to help the needy. Dailyenglish 06:59, 8 September 2006

[edit] British English: Slot machines

Both the BBC News (29/01/2007|22:00GMT) and The Guardian [3] refer to these as slot machines, not 'fruit machines'. Fruit machines is an older name which is no longer used officially in the UK. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Civil engineering student (talk • contribs) 22:39, 29 January 2007 (UTC).