Talk:Snake-Stones
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I started modifying this article after a friend came back from the Congo talking about 'black-stone'. It's a fascinating topic but it needs a lot of work.
Contents |
[edit] Ideas for article improvement
- Better structure for article
- Public domain photos
- Clarification of the different names
- black stone
- snake stone - is this the same thing? It seems like there are different traditions in different countries.
- mad stone - Is this a North-American version of the same thing? If so, how did the meme spread?
- Bezoar - "a stone found in the intestines of mostly ruminant animals" Is this the same as mad stone?
- References in Litarature
- Who was the Arabic writer Kazwini?
- Can we find old references to these stones?
- Apparently one of the first mentions in Western literature is in "Description Générale de la Chine" L’Abbé Grosier. I'm trying to find a good reference:
- Grosier, Abbe. A general description of China. London, 1783
- Grosier, A. A General Description of China: Containing the Topography of the Fifteen Provinces which Compose this Vast Empire, that of Tartary, the Isles, and Other Tributary Countries. 2 vols. Translated from the French of Abbe Grosier. London: G.G.J. & J. Robinson, MDCCLXXXVIII. 1788
- References in science
- get access to the medical articles that I've found abstracts of
- What is the current medical opinion on treatment using black-stone?
- How could it work?
- Could it function like Activated Carbon which is used to treat internal poisoning?
- Impact on society of current beliefs
- How widely are they used?
- Are many people suffering unnecessarily because the stones don't help
- or avoiding this traditional treatment because doctors don't support unscientific methods?
[edit] Useful links for more info
[edit] Online articles
(If you read these articles, please consider updating Snake-Stones)
- All About Mad·stones
- A Historical Description of Snake Stones
- Tales About the Properties and Powers of Snake Stones
- Historic Tales of Madstones and Serpent Stones
- A Tale of Three Goat-suckers / Story of Colonel Cobb
- Talks about a Snake Stone retrieved from a markhor. And also "Bezoar-stones were a sure cure for snake-venom and poison. They were obtained from the stomachs of various animals, mostly goats, and they used to be a regular item of trade from India and Persia to Europe"
- CONTEXT: 100 YEARS AGO, Nature 406, 354-354 (27 Jul 2000) News and Views. (Subscriber only) Also available in this article (see sidebar on page 2).
- "described as white, porous stones ... adhere until all the poison is drawn out, after which they are placed in milk" South Africans believe that they "taken from the head of a snake" Article "suggested that snakes stones are made of pumice ... may possibly explain the popular delusion that snake-stones are made of bone" could "the Malay slaves ... have carried the legend with them ..."?
- Very interesting article as it's a very early reference 1900 and talks about white rather than black stones.
- Medical study: Snake stone for snake envenomization, Rasquinha D. (Subscriber only)
- It would be very interesting to see the conclusions of this study.
- The Mad-Stone, JAMA May 12, 1900. As quoted in JAMA, May 17, 2000 Vol 283, No.19. (Free subscription required)
- "... earliest descriptions attributed to Abbé Grosier, in his 'Description of the Chinese' ... Use of a stone called the serpent-stone in "Tang-King". This was applied, stuck fast, absorbed the poison, dropped off ... stone was washed ... and could then be used again"
- "in 1812, Dr Thacher says ... there prevails a fanciful opinion ... that snake-stone possesses ... the power of extracting the poison of a snake"
- "Wonders of Nature and Art" in "the account of Tonquin" refers to the "serpent-stone" and "washing it with milk."
- Refers to a Mad-stone dated "Charlestown, S.C. 1740"
- Two types of Mad-stone "1. some porous form of calcareous rock or "2. a concretion found in the intestinal canal of herbivorous animals. in this being like the Bezoar stone ... which, when it ceased to be used in internal medication, came to be applied externally."
- Very interesting article: pointer to earliest reference (Grosier), suggests snake stones, mad stones and bozoar stones are similar in concept.
- Medicine in Colonial America: Part II. Harris D. Calif West Med. 1939 Jun; 50(6): 415-418.
- "The Bezoar or Bezar stone was another universal remedy in favorable repute."
- "in America it was for powdered internal use."
- "There is recorded the story of skillful a woman physician of Virginia who in 1690, gave 'pulverized oriental bezoar stone' to a man bitten a rattlesnake."
- Notes a very early use of bezoar stone in North America
- A Case of Snake-Bite from the Consilia of Gentile da Foligno. Thorndike L. Med Hist. 1961 Jan; 5(1): 90-95. quotes "Consilium ad morsum aspidis surdi" Pavia c. 1488
- "And there are many things which applied internally and externally are good against poisons, as Avicenna said of the bezoar."
[edit] Books
(If you have access to these books, please consider updating Snake-Stones)
- The Snakes of Trinidad and Tobago, Hans E. A. Boos - Mentions Belgian Black Stone on p. 193, 221,222
- General History and Collection of Voyages and Travels Vol.1, 2, 8, 11, 17 by Robert Kerr - Quoted by Indotalism.com: "... serpent-stone ... brought from India ... about the size of a bean, white in the middle, but of a fine sky-blue on the outside" Stone sticks to bite, falls off when full of venom. Refreshed by storing in milk.
- The Snakes of South Africa, F.W. FitzSimons Quoted by indotalisman.com: "Snake stones for the cure of snake bite have, for centuries, been in great demand. They are regarded by millions of Indians with awe and reverance. To them it is blasphemy to doubt the efficacy of a Snake stone. Of all snake bite "cures" the Snake Stone is regarded as the most effective." (TODO: get a better reference for this book)
- A strange story, Edward George E.L. Bulwer-Lytton Published 1862 - Talks about a blue-stone in Corfu that turned black after many uses. (Can we find earlier references than 1862?)
--Hamster128 12:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
