Talk:Sobibór extermination camp
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I thought the part about mosquito infestation seemed a little out of place, but then I thought "Hey, that note could save somebody's day." Good job. 70.161.196.94 05:14, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
180,000 minimum is calculated thus: 101,370 Jews in 1942, according to Hoefle + transport data from Arad, "Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka", pp. 147, 390, 391 + transport data from deathcamps.org/reinhard/sobibortransports.html
--85.140.12.4 15:44, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
260,000 figure finds no support in the sources. The figure in Hoefle's telegram and transport lists in Arad's book sum up to about 180,000.
It should be noted that the Soviet POWs mentioned in the stub were Jews deported from Minsk ghetto. Among them was First Lieutenant Alexander (Sasha) Pechersky, the leader of the famous Sobibór uprising.bull
You may have read it everywhere, nevertheless it is wrong: the gas chambers in Sobibór (as in Belzec and Treblinka; ditto the gas vans of the Einsatzgruppen, in Chelmno and Maly Trostinez) were not "fed with the exhaust of a diesel motor" but with the exhaust of a petrol driven Otto motor. If you don't believe that, see the interrogations and trial minutes of the 3 (!) T-4 men in charge of the gassings, Erich Bauer, Erich Fuchs and Franz Hödl. They even discussed problems with the ignition, which a Diesel motor, as is generally known, does not have. A reason for this widespread "Diesel story" may be that they used Diesel motors in the Reinhardt camps indeed, but only for their small generating plants. Hödl reported that they once tried a Diesel motor for the the gas chambers, but it did not work! -- P. Witte 00:39, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Why isn't Sobibor one of the links in the Jewish resistance during the Holocaust category (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_resistance_during_the_Holocaust)? I don't know how to link this page there, can someone tell me how to do it or do it themselves. Flyerhell 08:38, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
Could someone give a link to Hodl saying that he was working on petrol engines not diesels. I have not been able to find much on Hodl. If Hodl had tried an engine and it failed that can be interpreted a couple of ways - interested to see if we can now do 180 degree turn and dump diesel - almost all sites still hang to diesel.159.105.80.141 14:37, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Rather Sobibor
The Germans were using German (Kulmhof) or Germanized (Sobibor, Belzec) names, rather than the Polish ones. So the village is Sobibór, but the camp rather Sobibor, like in German documents. There was no "ó" on German keybords. Xx236 07:05, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 122 feet of sleeping space?
"Each prisoner was given about 122 feet of sleeping space." Surely cubic feet?
- What is the source for this? 122 feet is a small apartment in New York, not what someone would normally think of as the sleeping space of a concentration camp internee? 88.155.171.247 09:35, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
- Cubic feet? Who measures living space in cubic feet? Lager I allowed "approximately twelve square feet of sleeping space" per prisoner, according to Blatt's website. I'll edit the page.— OtherDave 18:30, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Himmler had PALM trees planted in Poland - just curious, I never dreamed that palm trees were popular vegetation in Poland.
Diesel - above it is mentioned that diesel was not used at Solbibor. The article also doesn't have the word diesel in it. However, searching the web give several citations of diesel - and almost nothing else. The diesel angle of course is not likely but when did this become the standard history?159.105.80.141 18:50, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Odd to see this page slam the use of diesel when so much effort has been used by nitzor, etc to keep the story viable. The article doesn't mention any burial details - cremation, mass graves. Which was it? Also 600 is mentioned in the escape - that wasn't all the inmates was it - or was it only a partial attempt?159.105.80.141 18:59, 28 March 2007 (UTC) Answered my own question - pits seem to be mentioned. I assume no cremation. Any forensic studies of the pits - 600 prisoners and 250,000 deaths - the numbers are of such a huge magnitude in difference that it seems unlikely. What sort of work was done at the camp? 159.105.80.141 19:08, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Various web sites - proholocaust - have vastly different accounts. Trivia - German staff was 20 SS and 100 Ukranians - the number 600 or 700 was the full camp compliment of prisoners - the buildings were destroyed after the war. For much of the 18 months it operated it recieved no transports of prisoners - in or out - railway problems. Seems to be very little documentation other than a few scattered eyewitness accounts. No real investigation seems to have been done.159.105.80.141 19:26, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
David Irving it appears has gone to Sobibor, etc after his release. He appears to have been more than courteous, but his observations are troubling. In a wry remark he notes that the site of a gas chamber has the stump of a tree that is pretty big right in the middle of where the floor would have been. I wonder if someone is going to count the rings? He is also shown looking up at the Prussian blue stains on the ceiling an Majdenk - of close standing next to a shoulder height window,ouch. I thought he would go for the throat when he got out - footnotes and all.159.105.80.141 19:42, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
The Hoefle memo is about arrivals - not deaths. Is there any other document? The one-to-one calculation of arrival=death must have some other/additional documentation?159.105.80.141 11:36, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
RE mosquitos - I have read that the ground water is at about 5 feet. The pits are said to be 23 feet deep - how did they do that? The mosquitos seem to bad enough to make one think that the area may be fairly swampy. 159.105.80.141 17:32, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Biskowitz - witness at the Eichmann trial - did they ever find the trap doors in the gas chamber, even the judge seemed to doubt his story ( he wouldn't back down on a single detail ). The NYT repeated the trapdoor part of Biskowitz's eyewitness testimony. 159.105.80.141 17:04, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
