Talk:Sritattvanidhi

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Contents 1 copy of prior thread on this article, originally on a user talk page 2 Regarding date of death 3 Regarding authorship 4 Position of pictures on page 5 Reliable sources for the translations

[edit] copy of prior thread on this article, originally on a user talk page

Thank you for your interest in the article on the Sritattvanidhi. Can you add any book references for the material you have added? We are trying to upgrade the quality of references on many of the Hinduism articles, which are often without citations now. Also, the picture you added has no associated documentation on file explaining where it is from or what the connection is. Can you help with that? I would also love to find an ISBN or book supplier for reproduction of the work that may still be available. It is a classic that needs wider attention. Buddhipriya 18:30, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

In order to keep conversations in one place on Wikipedia, I will transfer a copy of your remarks here. Thank you so much for replying! If you could upload pictures of all 32 forms showing the text it would be a great contribution. These pictures often appear in degraded forms in devotee publications, often with incorrect identification as to which form is which. If you read the script, could you upload the pictures and also doocument exactly which form appears in each picture, as you did with Mahaganapati? Having the original pictures on file with a systematic documentation of the names of the forms as given in the text would be invaluable to researchers, whc generally cannot obtain access to the source text directly. We could then work together to get the 32 forms integrated into the article. Please reply to this here, on your talk page, to keep the discussion in one place. I will add this page to my watchlist. Also, please sign your comments by typing four tildes ~~~~ which will add your name and a link to here in all your submissions. It saves time for the readers.

Repost of reply: You can get the book from: Director prasaranga University of Mysore Manasagangothri Mysore-570006

you can also get the books from online sources like https://www.dkagencies.com/doc/Home.html and serch for mummadi.

I also feel the title srittavanidi for your post on ganapati is not right.

If you need any more info ot if you feel i should post all the 32 paintings along with the original kannada texts, kindly let me know. raja

Buddhipriya 17:40, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

i have since corected a bit of your post:

1. Maharaja died on 28 march 1868. 2. The first page, the author states thus: May the work sri tattvanidi, which is illustrated and contains secrets of mantras and which is authored by king sri krishna raja, be written without any abstacle. Salutation to Lord ganapati and goddess chamundambika...

Hence we cannot today doubt the authorship and say it was done at his command !

Rajachandra 17:55, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

i have added two pictures today. i will upload a new pic of mahaganapati later. i will also transliterate the kannada texts as i progress.

Rajachandra 19:34, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

You are doing great work, thank you. Regarding changing statements that are in published sources, if you have a source that gives a different version, as in the case with authorship, rather than change a cited sentence please add an additional reference with the other point of view, or raise the subject on the talk page so we can work together to get both in. The citation to Martin-Dubost would be considered a reliable source and thus should not be removed. Also, I recommend that we continue further dialog about this on the talk page for the article rather than here, to make it easier for other editors to find these remarks. I will copy this entire thread to there now to preserve some of the good points you have made. Buddhipriya 19:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding date of death

It is common to have conflicts about dates in some of these sources. When multiple versions of dates can be found, it is best to cite both, with proper references. The date in the article is properly sourced to Martin-Dubost. If you can provide a precise page and book reference for "Maharaja died on 28 march 1868" then I will add that alternative dating in. The 1868 date is probably right, but it is unreferenced, and thus fails the test of WP:RS.

Buddhipriya 19:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

i can quote any number of sources. you could also see http://www.4dw.net/royalark/India/mysore4.htm.

Ref: 1.Annals of the Mysore Royal family Part 1 & 2 (kannada)- a publication of rhe Royal family of Mysore.(1916) 2.Mummadi Krsihnarajendra wodeyaru (kannada) by O.N.Lingannayya (1940) - More specific- 11PM night on 27 march 1968. 3. Mummadi Krishna raja wodeyaru (kannada)by Dr.R.Gopal & Dr.S. Narendra Prasad- a publication of Directorate of Archeology and Museums, Hospet, Karanataka.(2004)- Puts it as 28 March 1868.

Hope this is sufficient Rajachandra 17:37, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding authorship

As with the date of death, varying statements of direct authorship can all be stated, giving specific references that meet the test of WP:RS. Is it correct that this quote is from vol. 1 of the republished editon, or from some other edition? All that is needed is to clarify the edition and then I will add this view to that given by Martin-Dubost, which specifically states that he funded a project to do it as opposed to writing it all himself. The English word "authored" may broadly mean "arranged to be written" and it is not surprising that in the introduction full credit would be given to him regardless of whether he had help. Here is the quote we are working on:

2. The first page, the author states thus: May the work sri tattvanidi, which is illustrated and contains secrets of mantras and which is authored by king sri krishna raja, be written without any abstacle. Salutation to Lord ganapati and goddess chamundambika... Hence we cannot today doubt the authorship and say it was done at his command !

Buddhipriya 19:38, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Position of pictures on page

I have moved the pictures back to the right side because as I work with the text I need to use indentation to set off the quotes. When the pictures are on the left side the visual arrangement of the indented text is thrown off. It is important that the text be easy to read, so I recommend that we leave the pictures on the right side. Buddhipriya 17:36, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reliable sources for the translations

It is wonderful that you are able to provide your own transcription of the text with your translation. Please continue doing so. However in Wikipedia we must follow WP:RS and give references to anything we put here. There have been some different translations of these verses printed in books about Ganesha, and as we go I will give what Wikipedia would consider to be a reliable source for each verse. These quotations will probably be different from what you are giving. Please watch for how they differ and let's see if we can identify any ways in which your translation spots errors. Please do not change any of the text as given by other translators. In Wikipedia it does not matter if what the quote says is right, it just needs to be an accurate statement of what that reliable souce said. If there are conflicts between reliable sources these can both be quoted. Providing your own translation may be challenged as WP:OR so we need to figure out how to include the information in a way that uses reliable sources.

See WP:RS#Language for policy on use of the original text. It is good to include the actual source language as you are doing. Buddhipriya 17:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I am having difficulty keeping track of which translations you are providing, since there is another informal version already there. As you add your translations would you place note yourself as the source, so I can then work on them as new material more easily? I will continue to add published translations for comparisons. Buddhipriya 02:01, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

sorry i was busy. If you feel i need not add translations as i see them, i will add only the kannada text

Rajachandra 19:21, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to add your own translations, but please note in the text when you do so the variant versions can be distinguished from one another. When you just add text it is impossible to tell later where it came from. There are several variant translations in the published materials, and since they do not agree with one another, some of them must be wrong. But according to WP:RS we must cite sources, not contributed original research. Your versions may be helpful in reconciling the other published versions, but add them in a way that keeps your contribution clearly distinguished from other versions. Once yours are in I can go through later and try to reconcile variations. Buddhipriya 19:26, 11 March 2007 (UTC)