Talk:Stefan Banach

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The Hugo Steinhaus entry spells the school as "Lwow" instead of "Lvov", does anyone know the correct way?

"Lwow" would be the Polish way of writing it. I am not as knowledgable about Russian, but there are unfortunately many transliterations from Russian to the Latin alphabet, so both may be correct. --Erik Demaine 16:21, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

The city's Polish name is "Lwów." The Russian name is "L'vov" or, without the "miaki znak" (palatalization sign), "Lvov." To Ukrainians, the city's current owners, it's "L'viv" or "Lviv." logologist|Talk 10:39, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

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Contents 1 NPOV 2 Banach is a Ukrainian mathematician 3 Banach's nationality 4 Stefan Banach entry was vandalized after it was protected against the Polish chauvinists

[edit] NPOV

The word "great" (in the first sentence) seems a bit POV to me. Sorry to be so picky about the rules, if anyone objects just state your opinion and readd it. Flockmeal 21:16, Feb 23, 2004 (UTC)

It's not really POV. If you ask one hundred mathematicians living today if Stefan Banach was a great mathematician, one hundred of them would say yes. But you're right, it's probably better not to use the word. We would run into difficulties if we tried to distinguish the 'great' from the 'not-great' mathematicians, even though some cases are clear. So I put in the qualifier 'eminent' which is inarguable. Brian Tvedt 13:55, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Banach is a Ukrainian mathematician

Some anonymous user insists on calling Banach a Ukrainian mathematician and urges all those who request sources to check the Ukrainian wiki. Well, I did and it seems that the Ukrainian wiki article on him calls him a Pole exclusively (Народився у Краковi, поляк. - Born in Cracow, a Pole.). As a matter of fact he was not born in Cracow at all, although he spent most of his childhood there. According to this site, for instance, both of his parents were Polish, górale from the area of Nowy Targ in the Tatra Mountains. That's hardly the Ukraine, if you asked me. //Halibutt 10:30, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

The Ukrainian wiki article on Stefan Banach clearly identifies Banach as both Ukrainian and Polish mathematician.

Banach spent most of his professional career in the Ukrainian city of Lviv, including the periods while this city was still occupied by Austro-Hungary, dictator-ruled militarist Poland or Nazi Germany. Banach was a member of the Academy of Science of Ukraine and he has made many important contributions to the Ukrainian science, both during the Polish and German occupations of Lviv, and after Lviv was finally liberated and re-united with the rest of Ukraine. Stefan Banach was a professor and a chair of mathematics at the Ivan Franko University of Lviv, Ukraine.

Polish extremist chauvinists should be prevented from vandalizing the Wikipedia articles on eminent Ukrainian mathematicians belonging to the world-famous Lviv school of Ukrainian mathematics! 67.180.67.179 11:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Errr... sorry to disapoint you, my friend, but apart from the fact that in 1946 most of the city's population had been expelled and replaced with Ukrainians, there was little "Ukrainian" in that city before the end of WWII. Of course, Ukrainians have always considered that town as one of their cities and righfully so (just like London is now a notable centre of Polish culture), but that does not yet make it a Ukrainian town and all of its inhabitants Ukrainians, does it. Similarly, not all inhabitants of London are Poles, just like not all 20th century inhabitants of Wrocław were Poles. And, the only reason why Banach did not leave with the first group of the deportees (he was already on the list and was named a head of a Chair at the Jagiellonian University in Cracow) is that in January he was diagnosed a lung cancer and died soon afterwards.

This, my dear hot-headed friend, has little to do with nationalism, chauvinism or any other bias. Banach was simply not Ukrainian and had little to do with Ukraine whatsoever. Similarly, we don't call Stepan Bandera an Austrian-Polish-Ukrainian politician, do we. //Halibutt 12:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Dear Halibutt, I hope you will agree that we should all refrain from personal attacks and name-calling, in order for this discussion to remain useful and constructive. Let's stick to the neutral tone and avoid the demeaning definitions like "my dear hot-headed friend", regardless of how dear the hot-headed friend of your opponent may be to you personally. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.180.67.179 (talk) 07:46, 22 February 2007 (UTC).

The current entry on Stefan Banach has become a subject of systematic vandalism attacks by a small clique of Polish ultra-nationalist chauvinists.

The eminent Ukrainian and Polish mathematician Stefan Banach has taught at the university of Lviv, Ukraine most of his life, including the periods of time, when Lviv was occupied by dictator-ruled militarist Poland or Nazi Germany. Banach was a member of the Ukrainian Academy of Science and he became a full professor at Lviv university after the city of Lviv, Ukraine was finally liberated from German and Polish occupation.

Ukrainian Wikipedia correctly lists Stefan Banach as Ukrainian and Polish mathematician, taking into account both his origins, place of work and the contribution to the mathematical school of Ivan Franko University in Lviv, Ukraine.

Despite that, the Stefan Banach Wikipedia article has been systematically vandalised by Polish extreme nationalist characters. Their purpose is to erase and to distort the record of the Ukrainian roots of Stefan Banach and many other mathematicians who lived and worked in the city of Lviv, Ukraine.

[edit] Banach's nationality

Is Encyclopedia Britannica Online a "Polish nationalist" publication? According to Britannica, "Stefan Banach, born March 30, 1892, Kraków, Austria-Hungary (now in Poland), died August 31, 1945, Lvov, Ukrainian S.S.R. (now Lviv, Ukraine) [was a] Polish mathematician who founded modern functional analysis and helped develop the theory of topological vector spaces...." logologist|Talk 10:29, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Nationalist? Nope, but Britannica is surely a Polish chauvinist publication. //Halibutt 19:35, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stefan Banach entry was vandalized after it was protected against the Polish chauvinists

Polish ultra-nationalists somehow managed to vandalize the Stefan Banach Wikipedia entry after it was protected - see the history of the entry on Stefan Banach. This vandalism has been going on for months. The purpose of these Polish chauvinists is to erase and to distort any mentioning of the Stefan Banach contribution to and afiliation with the Ukrainian mathematics.

Most of the Banach's professional career took place in the Ukrainian city of Lviv. Banach chaired the department of mathematics in Ivan Franko University in Lviv. He is also one of the most prominent members of the world-famous Lviv School of Mathematics. Banach was a member of Ukrainian Academy of Science and colaborated with many Ukrainian and Russian colleagues. Banach's mother was Rusyn or Ukrainian and Banach's father was Polish.

Banach is listed as both Ukrainian and Polish mathematician in at least Ukrainian and Russian wikipedias. The comprehensive List of Ukrainians lists Stefan Banach as one of the eminent Ukrainian mathematicians.

An unbiased source, I'm sure... Deuar 15:33, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Despite many facts (the origin, place of work and life, contributions to the Ukrainian mathematics) linking Banach to Ukraine, Polish chauvinists systematically vandalise the Stefan Banach entry in the English language Wikipedia. E.g., they erased the mentioning of Banach as both Ukrainian and Polish mathematician, leaving only him being mentioned as Polish. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.180.67.179 (talk) 08:29, 23 February 2007 (UTC).

Ah, it's amazing what statements can be obtained by appropriate massaging of facts and terminology. I seem to recall with a tear in my eye that the Soviets used to be good at that too ... Deuar 15:33, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Ditto. Since the problem looks persistent, for the sake of future references, let's make it explicit. Banach worked in the town of Lwów, as it was called at that time by its inhabitants. Not surprising, as it was in Poland then. Further, it was Polish Lwów School of Mathematics; many Jewish-Polish notable members there, AFAIK not a single Ukrainian, though (e.g. did anyone stay in post-war Ukrainian SSR? what language Scottish Book was written in?click here in case you wondered). Banach held chair at the university in the war times Soviet era -- as explained in the article -- and did collaborate with Ukrainian SSR Academia, the latter being a standard cooperation habit for the scientists. None of this makes him Ukrainian. No reliable source identifies him as such (feel free to prove the contrary, but read the definition WP:RS first). --Beaumont (@) 18:37, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

PS. I suggest you (67.180...) report this act of vandalizing to some admin. Be bold. Maybe this will result in another block, a longer one this time.

It is true that Lviv, Ukraine grew a sizable Polish population during the years of occupation by Nazi Germany and dictator-ruled militaristic and anti-Semitic Poland (1918-1944/45). According to many historical records, the Polish population of Lviv, Ukraine was poor and suffered from various diseases as a consequence of poverty and malnutrition. It is plain ridiculuos to view a temporary presence of these misfortunate Poles on the Ukrainian soil as a justification to any misguided claims of our contemporary Polish partners to any place in the history of Lviv, Ukraine.

If our Polish partners think otherwise, they should be advised to claim themselves a place in the history of London, Paris or any other European city, based on the current European omni-presence of numerous Polish un-skilled laborers, beggars and prostitutes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.180.67.179 (talk) 09:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC).