Talk:Super Bowl VII

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is part of WikiProject National Football League, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to the NFL on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.

[edit] Trivia: Kiick fumble

Here's what I added to the Trivia section, and then removed when challenged:65tosspowertrap 18:55, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

"It is not well known, and not reflected in the official game statistics or play-by-play, but Jim Kiick fumbled on the Dolphin's second-to-last possesion, three plays before Yepremian's infamous pass. With the ball at the Washington 37 yard line, Kiick ran up the middle. As he was being tackled by Jack Pardee, the ball was stripped by Brig Owens. Kiick managed to fall on it before any Redskin could recover it. A careful viewing of the NFL Films Super Bowl VII DVD shows this to be the case. (Caution: the DVD shows this play out of sequence, as if it occurred on the Dolphin's last possession.)[1] Listen carefully, and you can hear someone, presumably one the Redskins, say "fumble!." The irony, considering what happened three plays later, is that it might have been preferable from the Dolphin's point of view if Washington had recovered Kiick's fumble."

[1]Super Bowl I-X Collector's Set, Disc 4, Super Bowl VII, 0:41:41 elapsed time. NFL Productions, LLC, 2003

My claims that Kiick fumbled, and that it is shown out of sequence, are based on my own viewing of the DVD, and on the game play-by-play. Maybe this qualifies as "personal research," but it is verifiable by anyone carefully watching the DVD. I can't believe I'm the only person to notice this. However, if you feel it is inappropriate to make this fumble claim in this Wikipedia article, then perhaps it should be removed.65tosspowertrap 00:32, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I can't prove that it should have been scored a fumble; that's a valid criticism. I do see Owens strip the ball from Kiick, but because of the camera angle, what happens to the ball after that is unclear, except that evidently Kiick fell on it. I do hear someone say "Fumble!" and then someone, possibly Pardee (watch his head) says "Shit!" It's possible that it happened so fast only the players in the immediate area of the tackle saw it. But if Kiick lost possession of the ball prior to the whistle, isn't it a fumble? As for supplying a citation to back up my claim, that would simply be the DVD itself, wouldn't it?.

My claim that the play is shown out of sequence is based on the official play-by-play; Kiick was tackled by Owens, not Pardee, on Miami's last possession.65tosspowertrap 01:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:NFL_Films"

It seems like that you are making a claim based more on your interpretation about what you saw during that sequence on the DVD. Without any evidence that this claim of yours has also been previously published by another reliable source, this falls under the definition of original research, which is not allowed on Wikipedia. Thanks. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 22:34, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone have any information on a possible Kiick fumble in Super Bowl VII? Thanks,65tosspowertrap 18:55, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Garo's Gaffe

I just wanted to point out that Garo's play was significant enough IMO to have a title on that section. I mean, it was Washington's only score, it is one of the most famous bloopers in Super Bowl history (Leon Lett's fumble being a distant second), and it gave the kicker more celebrity than Norwood since it didn't cost their team the game. Norwood's miss has it's own second level section, (AND it's own separate article), While Leon Lett has a whole section on his page devoted to his two big gaffes. I won't add it back, but I figure the comment should be made, and to let others weigh in on the final decision. CodeCarpenter 14:05, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Yepremian's fumble is universally known as "Garo's Gaffe." It is one of the most famous Super Bowl plays. Google "Garo's Gaffe." What comes up first? This article. Without a "Garo's Gaffe" section heading, the searcher will have to read almost the entire article to find the appropriate section. I think a "Garo's Gaffe" heading is appropriate. 65tosspowertrap 14:26, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

The play certainly was significant, but it doesn't need it's own title in the summery section. Currently, no other single play has it's own title in ANY Super Bowl article game summery, not even the Norwood incedent. Like I said, Garo's Gaffe was just part of the game, and while it does warrant a detailed description (which it has), it does not warrent contradicting the formula that is used for every wikipedia Super Bowl article. Furhtermore, the incedent is also mensioned in the opening paragraph, so I don't think anyone is going to have a hard time finding it. Chainclaw 15:22, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I am convinced. I went through the 41 SBs, and "The Guarantee" is the only specific item title, and it is in the Pre-Game, not in the Game Summary. Garo's page has a detail about the play including a title, but if throwing 5 TDs in one quarter does not have it's own title, then this play does not need one either. IMO of course... CodeCarpenter 18:13, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks like Chainclaw is right. 65tosspowertrap 13:31, 5 March 2007 (UTC)